Lol, so every atom has its own freedom? Man, if everything is matter, than there is no freedom, cuz everything would be dictated by the set of differential equations, accept that. Whether an initial condition is given in a set of differential equations, I can predict the response for every t.



You can do whatever you want, man: morality is just God's advice for you to be happy, but u can decide to be unhappy instead.



Ok, but you should only help others to receive benefits from them, ultimately, what matters is your own well-being, you don't really care to maximize the others well being, just yours.



I gave you an example of why it is not an emotion: the guy bathing his sick and old mom is not loving her with that attitude? However, he isn't feeling anything, and he may even feel disgust. I can give you too an example of an act that a lot of people call love, but it’s not, which is casual sex: you are only using the person to get pleasure, treating them merely as an object of own satisfaction, and many people call it love.



And God is the source of all motion. That is the point: every being comes from God, because a being cannot come out of nowhere, or do you believe that vacuum can create something?

This post was edited by Marcelorr on Jun 14 2020 09:07pm

You cut out a very important part of that sentence. Not very honest of you.

Morality is not "god's advice on how to be happy". Literally no dictionary anywhere gives that as the definition. I'm pretty happy. I have a fulfilling job, a wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, etc. Things are pretty good for me. I also don't go to church and spend a few hours a week arguing on the internet. So it seems like you can be happy without following God's advice.

If you need God to tell you to care about other people's well being, then you're an asshole, and you're just using religion to mask that. Even if I assume that only my own pleasure matters then I still have a pretty good incentive to care about others, because I value them. I love my wife and care about her well-being. People like to value and help other people. It's just part of being a social species.

No, he isn't "loving her with that attitude". Doing something good for somebody doesn't mean you love them. I gave a homeless guy a box of crackers I had in my car a few weeks ago. That doesn't mean I love him. Genuine question, is English your first language? It seems like some of the disagreement we have is just related to semantics, and you are arguing the semantics in a way I've never seen an English speaker argue them.

Something being the first cause can be called God, but a first cause does not need to be loving, or good, or personal, or intelligent. It just needs to result in motion. Adding in the extra stuff about being "everything in essence" just results in contradiction.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jun 14 2020 09:20pm

Sorry, it wasn't my intention, I skipped this sentence by accident while reading. You said "if that matters motions is not deterministic", well it does not exist a random movement, it is only random for us. The result I would have when playing a die would already be known to me if I knew all its spatial coordinates, speed, etc.



You shouldn't read a dictionary expecting to read a philosophy book. Good for you, man... I would still have a feeling of emptiness despite these good things. Well, I don't wanna make you expose your personal life here, but couldn't that depression you just mentioned be related with the lack of meaning in life? If u want, we could talk about that via pm.



Yes, you are right, but where this comes from? Why am I happy when I take care of others instead of taking care of myself? This doesn't make any sense from a materialistic point of view, it would make a lot more sense to just worry about myself.



Yes, it is a little proof of love. Try to do nothing at home and leave everything on your wife's back to see what is going to happen. Love is proven in the sacrifice, just having sex is very easy. I will give you a better defition of love below.



Nope, my first language is portuguese... maybe this is causing some misunderstandings, cuz I consult the google translator sometimes, lol.



He has to be everything because every being will come from him. Nobody can give what they don't have. If you believe the matter is the first cause, then every being should come from it, which for me is absurd... I cannot conceive that intelligence, freedom and love come from matter.

I will give you now a more complete definition of love, I have been thinking a lot about our conversation during those days.
Love, more than just to want someone's good, is self-giving. It is not opposed to hate, but to selfishness (hate is a form of selfishness). Selfishness is simply to deny your donation to others. Love is a way of increasing your own being, because you open yourself up to others. In selfishness you diminish, because you lock yourself in.
God is love, we were made by God to love, this is the path to happiness: forgetting yourself and giving yourself (your time, your efforts) to others, this is the summary of all morality.
Don't you have the experience of spend a day just thinking about yourself? I have, and that sucked. However, I have also had the experience of spending a day forgetting myself and just thinking about others, and that was wonderful. Is it easy? No, it often requires sacrifice, it is the mystery of the cross.

This post was edited by Marcelorr on Jun 15 2020 07:28pm

I don't really care what you find absurd. If you want to have a proof of God in the form you gave you have to prove that these things can't come from matter. So far, we have good reason to believe they can come from matter, since we know matter affects our consciousness both in quantity (anesthetics) and in quality (hormones).

Well, I gave you a good reason to make you believe the fredom couldn't come from matter, so you decide if you want to belive that you have no freedom or that something that is not material is responsible for your freedom. The intelligence is very related with the freedom, because u use freedom to know things and judge: it is true or it is not true. You use freedom also to love: will I give myself to others or not? I am not denying the fact that the body has a lot of influence, but it alone is not enough.

If you want it to be a proof you actually have to prove it, not just suggest

It is not possible to prove mathematically that God exists, even mathematics itself doesn't prove everything, but it starts from axioms. I gave you good reasons to believe, but, if you want, you can believe in something less credible (that freedom does not exist), it's your choice.
Well, it seems our discussion ended, thank you. The best I can do now is to pray to you be happy, goodbye.

Then don't claim it's a proof

All COVID vaccines using aborted-baby stem cells, group warns

https://www.wnd.com/2020/06/covid-va...s-group-warns/

Your link doesn't work, and even if you google to find the article it doesn't give any evidence that it uses stem cells from aborted fetuses. The article is mostly railing against forced vaccinations.

Why are you so happy to spread lies? You're not being a very good Christian by doing so.