Any way to shut up those assholes ? I means without having to put them in reeducation camps ?

So, would you, for example, support deportations of convicted rapists and knife attackers, even if they might face torture or the death penalty in their home country? would you support picking up the boat refugees in the mediterranean and bringing them back to the african shore? would you accept systematically lower welfare payments to immigrants than to citizens, or would you call it discrimination? what would you do with those who have thrown their passport away, to which place would you deport them?

I might have judged your stance wrong, but I'm still sceptical. The political left in germany is also constantly crying for "those asylum seekers who were rejected to actually get deported" - only to then find 1001 reasons and excuses why deportations are not feasible in practice and cry crocodile tears.




they all ARE shaped by a backwards culture, they grew up in a strictly patriarchic, misogynic society with an affinity for violence and religious extremism.

not all of them are extremists, less than half of them I'd guess. but a far larger share of them are extremists than the mainstream media wants to admit. islamists and jihadist dont just make up 0.1% of them...
the same goes for the share of them who want to live by sharia laws. I'd estimate this share to be at least 50%.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 22 2018 02:59pm

Corbyn is a spineless mong. If he becomes PM I'll move to a Syrian refugee enclave in Berlin and eat bratwurst for the rest of my days

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/21/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-endorse-calls-tougher-sanctions-russia/

he's more than 69 already, dont worry.

seriously? if they faced those charges for the very crimes they committed here, it's not even a question. i'd send them there in an instant - if you commit a CRIME in a country you're seeking asylum in that is so severe, how can you expect to be judged more favourably than in the country you grew up in?
however, if for example there was an altercation involving knives that did NOT carry a death penalty in their home country, but they faced capital punishment there for belonging to a certain political group, religion, race, gender... then it would depend on the severity of the incident and its circumstances.

in general, however, i think we are way too lenient with deportations of criminals.

the boat refugee crisis, just like the case mentioned above, requires a rework and overhaul of our legal frameworks though, and the establishment of an agency with the authority, capability, and funding to properly vet and investigate claims for refugee status (that also concerns the 'passport lost / thrown away / never possessed' part) - something i've been advocating since 2016 btw.

so i can't give you a definitive answer to your question and everything it entails, there is just too much information and detail missing. to satisfy your curiosity though, let me elaborate some of my general stances: i'm in favour of punishing the cynical organisers and profiteers of these dangerous and inhumane mediterranean routes, and also in favour of rejecting those without legitimate claims. i'm NOT in favour of punishing the people trying to mitigate the suffering and loss of life though, since i don't agree with the common argument that it incentivises those routes to a relevant degree. i'm also opposed to randomly paying an african state billions of euros to 'accept' these refugees (israel style) - not only because that's not a guarantee they won't just try again, but also because it just exacerbates the crisis in those states AND incentivises a slave-style refugee trade, much more than any humanitarian initiatives to save innocent lives could, even if they tried. cooperation and coordination? yes. colonial style payments for extraterritorial 'human garbage dumps'? no.




that goes both ways though. i agree that large parts of our PC crowd tend to downplay that percentage. however, the right does the exact opposite, constantly refering to that one study revealing a frankly shocking percentage of people in favour of sharia law, but acting like that basically makes them automatically extremists or even terrorists - even though that's obviously not how that works. yes, they grew up in a DIFFERENT culture than we. yes, they take their religion more serious and their values are not the same as ours are TODAY - but just because they stated in an anonymous survey that they would like to live by their religious law doesn't mean they automatically disregard existing law.

and just to be totally clear, since i know 'understanding where something comes from' is frequently misrepresented as 'supporting it': yes, it's definitely on THEM to adapt, and i'd prefer it wasn't like that in the first place. would be nice if your mindset changed as soon as you cross a country's border, but well...


_________________________

so now that i answered your questions AGAIN while you ignored mine, how about you show the same kind of respect to me and explained how you think the constant fear mongering, dehumanising, cherry picking, and demonising of people who refuse to do the same, but still acknowledge the problem and are actually open to solutions, helps.
how constantly accusing them of being in favour of crimes (or even complicit) and abuse of welfare, will solve the problem. because if i was equally black and white in my thinking, i'd just say 'fuck it, you deserve your worst nightmares to become true' - and i guess there are plenty of people who already did that.

do you really not see how these extreme positions just further divide our countries? and i hate to break it to you, but: despite the current popularity of the afd, you're still a minority. it's NOT happening again in germany, and if you only leave us two choices, you'll lose - and so will the country as a whole. realistically you have no political power to speak of - your domains are the comment sections and forums of the internet where you spread your bigotry and small-mindedness, hiding behind the relative anonymity of the web - but there is no trump in sight in germany, and there won't be for a while...

This post was edited by fender on Aug 22 2018 04:23pm

which fear mongering, dehumanising, cherry picking are you talking about?
i report facts from daily life, so called "isolated cases" that pile up by the thousands

one of my main arguments is that almost every single case i write about could have been prevented and should never have happened in the first place
by simply enforcing that law that we have and those who violate it on a daily basis (merkel and her minions) can not be a part of the solution

you do make reasonable arguments, finally (can you do this more often please), but i dont see it in reality
overhaul of legal frameworks is nice, but we didnt even respect the old one and seriously investigating claims for refugee status is pretty much impossible

refugee boats will stop coming if we enforce the same policy australia did "no way"
the self proclaimed saviors in the mediterranean have no right to ship people to our shores despite their ridiculous claims and they have no respect for the people of europe, who have to deal with the mess
not to mention that they are a central part of the human trafficking system, 28 EU states and most of them have a navy to help people and bring them back, is that really so hard?

i am open for solutions (where did you get the idea that i am not?) and i have said so more than once, however i strongly believe that people coming to europe can never be the answer
it took just ~1,X million migrants to cause the trouble in germany we have right now, thats africas population growth of around 2 weeks so we arent helping one bit

africans have to do it by themselves, i do agree that dumping money there isnt exactly working, thats why these people have to sort it out in their own
european workers are too busy being babysitters for others

what you call cherry picking is me pointing out that the cultural background of the people coming here will end up in disaster, one way or the other and false tolerance is the worst way to deal with it (at least you kinda said as much)
you can ask a random psychologist and he will tell you cant just change people beyond a certain age, that battle is lost before it began, thats why i say that integration is completely useless for the vast majority

i do appreciate the will to integrate, but even for integrated asylum seekers and those with an official status i will stick with the definition of asylum
its temporary protection, all of them have to leave one day or the other

there are legal ways for permanent migration of people with actual skills, no need to change anything at all

actually german speaking syrians could help us to rebuild syria to just name one example, however we would need to speak with the people in charge
there are plenty of ideas to make deals with syria and other places to actually help where it is needed

even you have to admit, that the current government and all parties (except the afd of course) do not plan to send asylum seekers back whatsoever, its clear that they want permanent mass migration

i reject that as well as the ideology of islam
this backward belief system has no place here, qur'an, sharia, its not a debate for me and they are the mainstream in every single muslim country on earth (FACT)
if people want to integrate they will have to relinquish every single part that is not compatible with our law and free society, period (when will that happen? i am waiting)

i will admit that i do tend to see the negative things as lots of people in my family are in the police force and you get the daily reports from the street, where the state is losing control, every day a bit more

i wonder where you get the idea that i represent extreme positions, i clearly explained that enforcement of existing law and a rejection of any ideology that violates it is more than good enough
is that too much to ask? i always thought the CDU and merkel would represent just that and i voted for her in 2009 despite having some problems with the EU and the currency

times have changed and the former socialist FDJ secretary for propaganda (no suprise she had such a splendid career in eastern germany) has made it clear that she has no values or guidelines at all
i am not dividing anything, the people in power do and you realising that would help us all a lot

"it's NOT happening again in germany"

would you care to elaborate? what exactly should or should not happen again in germany? (i think i know what you mean, but its getting ridiculous)
as a matter of fact everyone is a minority right now, even the invincible CSU is about to lose their majority in bavaria
all polls suggest that a clear majority wants a major change in politics and is done with the refugee madness

by the way, i am not a party member (yet) of the afd so its feeling kinda weird when you use the word "you", but alright
obviously they dont have real power as of yet, but the party is only 5 years old....making the parliament in every election is rather impressive and its growing

i told you several times that, if the CDU could just do its job and represent OUR interests, there would be no need for them at all and many members come from merkels party

the country as a whole is losing every day the current government is doing their destructive work, stop pushing responsibility to those who are actively opposing it
there is no need for a trump, a söder or a meuthen would be pretty decent for starters

to copy your last words, a real change is not in sight in germany and the stupidity will continue for a while

come to USA, no rape gangs just gang gangs.

You make it fairly easy for others to counter you. Letting thousands™ of isolated cases ruin the lives of millions of refugees is like saying we should forbid cars because too many people die in traffic.

Nobody ever said that accepting refugees would not have its disadvantages. Nobody ever said it would go without crime (and even murder) by alienated extremists. However, if you add up everything, "Merkel and her minions" are still saving thousands/millions more lives than they're losing, so their ideology of accepting immigrants is not as unreasonable as you attempt to make it look.

Edit for what it's worth: If your own personal life experiences really matter in a discussion like this, then so do mine. I am in Brussels every workday, and apart from the terrorist attack in 2016 I have never seen/experienced something bad here that could have been avoided if there were no immigrants. Voilà, I have just proven from my personal experiences that immigration is not a problem.

This post was edited by Leevee on Aug 23 2018 01:16am

I've been away for some time, and it's impossible for me to catch up with all that has been discussed in this thread, but I decided to skim a few pages back to see if I could find something about this.

It's a pretty interesting case. It seems like this guy was a closet homo. He was struggling to accept who he was due to the fear of being rejected by some of his muslim friends and family members (which are apparently conservative, but with no signs of being close to radicalized). This is backed by several notes and texts he sent. He had discussed suicide with his wife, who was apparently trying to help him in this "coming out" process. So it looks like this guy was basically just trying to get himself killed by the police.

Very sad such a thing can still happen in the 21st century in a western country. Perhaps the government needs to do more to help the LGTB community, women, etc that are struggling inside conservative environments.