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xxx_aria
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Feb 20 2016 09:03pm
Even a famous atheist, like Richard Dawkins, admits he is 99% sure there is no God. He also explains that agnosticism and atheism lie on the same spectrum. It seems like atheists are radical agnostics.
ThatAlex
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Feb 20 2016 09:12pm
Essentially, atheism addresses belief and agnosticm addresses knowledge.

Atheism is "the lack of belief in the existence of any deities."

A agnostic is someone who claims they don't know or it is not possible to know for certain whether or not gods exist.


Here is a good graphic that explains this pretty well:



And here is another figure that illustrates the same concept:

doomchaser
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Feb 20 2016 09:13pm
Only idiots need faith...Moses climbed a mountain to find God.. :rolleyes: And rest of us humans to small minded to understand God..So we either don't believe, or have faith..
Voyaging
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Feb 20 2016 11:14pm
.
Quote (ThatAlex @ Feb 20 2016 10:12pm)
Essentially, atheism addresses belief and agnosticm addresses knowledge.

Atheism is "the lack of belief in the existence of any deities."

A agnostic is someone who claims they don't know or it is not possible to know for certain whether or not gods exist.


Here is a good graphic that explains this pretty well:

http://liberalgeek.com/sites/default/files/atheist-agnostic-quadrant.jpg

And here is another figure that illustrates the same concept:

http://www.stanleycolors.com/wp-content/uploads/atheism.jpg


Neither of these graphs is quite accurate in representing the way the terms are usually used.

Agnostic/gnostic typically refers to a claim regarding the knowability of religious belief, or at the very least a claim about the current state of total human knowledge, not a claim about the believer's own state of knowledge.

For example: I may say I believe in God, but claim that I don't know that God exists. I would still be a gnostic theist if I think it's possible to know God exists, or especially if I believe anyone else knows that God exists.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Feb 20 2016 11:19pm
ThatAlex
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Feb 20 2016 11:22pm
Quote (Voyaging @ 20 Feb 2016 23:14)
.

Neither of these graphs is quite accurate in representing the way the terms are usually used.

Agnostic/gnostic typically refers to a claim regarding the knowability of religious belief, or at the very least a claim about the current state of total human knowledge, not a claim about the believer's own state of knowledge.

For example: I may say I believe in God, but claim that I don't know that God exists. I would still be a gnostic theist if I think it's possible to know God exists, or especially if I believe anyone else knows that God exists.


It's a technical point, but you may be right. Regardless, these figures are good introductions for people to understand the 4 major categories of religious belief and knowability.
Skinned
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Feb 21 2016 12:04am
Can an atheist be Christian?

Out of self-interest.

This post was edited by Skinned on Feb 21 2016 12:06am
j0ltk0la
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Feb 21 2016 12:16am
Quote (Skinned @ Feb 21 2016 12:04am)
Can an atheist be Christian?

Out of self-interest.


It's okay to have contradictions with two competing theories.

Quote (xxx_aria @ Feb 20 2016 06:03pm)
Different theories can contradict each other, and until we research to see which is more true, it is fair to consider both.


ThatAlex
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Feb 21 2016 12:22am
Quote (Skinned @ 21 Feb 2016 00:04)
Can an atheist be Christian?

Out of self-interest.


Quote (Skinned @ 21 Feb 2016 00:04)
Can an atheist be Christian?

Out of self-interest.


Perhaps. By definition, atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of any deities.

Christianity, by definition, is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the New Testament. A Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

Theoretically, you could practice the teachings of the New Testament and believe (to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something) in a man named Jesus Christ but not acknowledge or believe that Jesus was a deity. Of course, Christians wouldn't call you a Christian, but in theory you could fit the definition (believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings).

But personally, I think the answer is no. The belief that Jesus is God and God's son is a central tenant of Christianity. Without acknowledging Jesus as a diety, I think it makes it difficult to justify calling you a "believer" (per the definition) of the teachings outlined in the New Testament. It would be a huge stretch to say an atheist could be a Christian.
WidowMaKer_MK
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Feb 21 2016 12:26am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Feb 21 2016 01:22am)
Perhaps. By definition, atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of any deities.

Christianity, by definition, is a religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the New Testament. A Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

Theoretically, you could practice the teachings of the New Testament and believe (to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something) in a man named Jesus Christ but not acknowledge or believe that Jesus was a deity. Of course, Christians wouldn't call you a Christian, but in theory you could fit the definition (believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings).

But personally, I think the answer is no. The belief that Jesus is God and God's son is a central tenant of Christianity. Without acknowledging Jesus as a diety, I think it makes it difficult to justify calling you a "believer" (per the definition) of the teachings outlined in the New Testament. It would be a huge stretch to say an atheist could be a Christian.


...what teachings in the New Testament define a Christian...just a few examples will suffice ?
xxx_aria
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Feb 21 2016 12:40am
Quote (Voyaging @ Feb 20 2016 09:14pm)
.

Neither of these graphs is quite accurate in representing the way the terms are usually used.

Agnostic/gnostic typically refers to a claim regarding the knowability of religious belief, or at the very least a claim about the current state of total human knowledge, not a claim about the believer's own state of knowledge.

For example: I may say I believe in God, but claim that I don't know that God exists. I would still be a gnostic theist if I think it's possible to know God exists, or especially if I believe anyone else knows that God exists.


This is interesting. I am working on creating a new thread about the difference between knowing and believing.
Quote (j0ltk0la @ Feb 20 2016 10:16pm)
It's okay to have contradictions with two competing theories.


props
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