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#12801
Jun 21 2017 05:09pm
Quote (majorblood @ 22 Jun 2017 00:53)
you don't have that right


we should have, and irrespective from the question where the boundaries of free speech in germany were lying before, it's clear that such raids narrow those boundaries and are a first step to installing a more comprehensive government-controlled censorship infrastructure.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 21 2017 05:10pm
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#12802
Jun 21 2017 07:09pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 19 2017 07:27am)
I think you're being too optimistic for trump/the GOP.

yes, they have a huge advantage in terms of district lines and midterm voter demographics, and a huge advantage in the senate races, and I consider the whole comey russia investigation turning out to be a nothingburger to be the most realistic scenario. but I'd still put something like a 20-25% probability on the investigations turning something up that really hurts trump. the GOP pushing through a very unpopular healthcare bill that costs millions of people their insurance could turn them very sour and could bring up enthusiasm and turnout for democrats. there's no way in hell the GOP doesnt increase its seats in the senate, but I also dont think that they're gonna get a supermajority either.


overall, the midterms are still almost 18 months away, and there is plenty of room for scandals but also legislation until then. a lot will depend on whether trump gets consumed by more scandals and on whether he will be able to get big, meaningful bills through congress till the midterms.


I don't think it's fair to characterize a healthcare bill as "costing" people their healthcare. As it stands, many of those people don't WANT to pay for care they don't think they'll use. They will, once unburdened from a mandate, CHOOSE to not carry insurance. Don't get me wrong, there will be other reasons why TrumpCare will suck, but this isn't the best vantage to assail Republicans for instituting.
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#12803
Jun 21 2017 07:12pm
Quote (Santara @ 22 Jun 2017 03:09)
I don't think it's fair to characterize a healthcare bill as "costing" people their healthcare. As it stands, many of those people don't WANT to pay for care they don't think they'll use. They will, once unburdened from a mandate, CHOOSE to not carry insurance. Don't get me wrong, there will be other reasons why TrumpCare will suck, but this isn't the best vantage to assail Republicans for instituting.


fair enough, but all polls still clearly show that the AHCA is a very unpopular bill, not just with democrats but also with the vast majority of moderates and even some conservative traditional GOP-voters.

yes, there are the folks who have a very libertarian stance on health care, as you described, but I dont think they're the majority.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 21 2017 07:13pm
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#12804
Jun 21 2017 07:29pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 21 2017 07:09pm)
I don't think it's fair to characterize a healthcare bill as "costing" people their healthcare. As it stands, many of those people don't WANT to pay for care they don't think they'll use. They will, once unburdened from a mandate, CHOOSE to not carry insurance. Don't get me wrong, there will be other reasons why TrumpCare will suck, but this isn't the best vantage to assail Republicans for instituting.


I prefer how the CBO came out with the fact that we will have worse healthcare than if we had just never implemented Obamacare.

That's right, the Republican plan is worse than doing nothing. It's counter-productive to affordable healthcare.
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#12805
Jun 21 2017 07:30pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 21 2017 08:12pm)
fair enough, but all polls still clearly show that the AHCA is a very unpopular bill, not just with democrats but also with the vast majority of moderates and even some conservative traditional GOP-voters.

yes, there are the folks who have a very libertarian stance on health care, as you described, but I dont think they're the majority.


Whether they're a majority or not, the media run the narrative that they'll LOSE their healthcare, and there are more than just libertarians who don't want to buy a bad product.

When will people learn that healthcare will only get better when the government gets out of it?
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#12806
Jun 21 2017 07:31pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 21 2017 07:30pm)
Whether they're a majority or not, the media run the narrative that they'll LOSE their healthcare, and there are more than just libertarians who don't want to buy a bad product.

When will people learn that healthcare will only get better when the government gets out of it?


Probably around the time the rest of the world stops having government involved and absolutely destroying us in quality.

Many will LOSE healthcare since subsidies will be cut.
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#12807
Jun 21 2017 07:32pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 21 2017 08:09pm)
I don't think it's fair to characterize a healthcare bill as "costing" people their healthcare. As it stands, many of those people don't WANT to pay for care they don't think they'll use. They will, once unburdened from a mandate, CHOOSE to not carry insurance. Don't get me wrong, there will be other reasons why TrumpCare will suck, but this isn't the best vantage to assail Republicans for instituting.


When the healthcare bill specifically cuts funding to a host of things involving healthcare, it's intellectually dishonest to claim that it isn't costing people their healthcare. Or did you think that by gutting funding to these programs that the same amount of people are going to be able to be covered by them? Which is exactly why they're sneaking this through as a special budget procedure called budget reconciliation, that only requires 51 votes instead of 60, instead of actually allowing people to see what's going on. With the republicans controlling the majority, the fact that they're doing this should send up red flags to anyone with a lick of common sense.

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on Jun 21 2017 07:40pm
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#12808
Jun 21 2017 09:57pm
Quote (Santara @ Jun 21 2017 08:30pm)
Whether they're a majority or not, the media run the narrative that they'll LOSE their healthcare, and there are more than just libertarians who don't want to buy a bad product.

When will people learn that healthcare will only get better when the government gets out of it?


better for who? certainly not the people who can't afford to pay the libertarian rates of pay-me-everything-you-have-if-you-don't-want-to-die
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#12809
Jun 21 2017 10:06pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 21 2017 08:31pm)
Probably around the time the rest of the world stops having government involved and absolutely destroying us in quality.

Many will LOSE healthcare since subsidies will be cut.


I hate to agree with Feinstein, but she's right on this.

"We are the only industrialized nation that relies heavily on a for-profit medical insurance industry to provide basic health care," Feinstein said. "I believe, fundamentally, that all medical insurance should be not-for-profit."

The rest of the world has figured this out, yet we're still fucking up.
What's really amazing, they still manage to have private insurance for those that want it.

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on Jun 21 2017 10:19pm
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#12810
Jun 22 2017 01:19am
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ Jun 22 2017 12:06am)
I hate to agree with Feinstein, but she's right on this.

"We are the only industrialized nation that relies heavily on a for-profit medical insurance industry to provide basic health care," Feinstein said. "I believe, fundamentally, that all medical insurance should be not-for-profit."

The rest of the world has figured this out, yet we're still fucking up.
What's really amazing, they still manage to have private insurance for those that want it.


That's what you get when you inflate costs with 30-years of Panzi-scheme Medicare and SS.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Jun 22 2017 01:19am
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