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Apr 11 2019 07:26pm
Quote (4killer7 @ Apr 8 2019 06:11pm)
Risner is a third round talent and I think extremely overrated. Extremely sloppy and loses most battles against any speed rushers. He's too slow off his step and takes poor body angles. Also he cant reconignize proper blitz pick ups to save his life. I haven't watched Taylor because I doubt he makes it to the vikings so i havent seen much. To me the only two Oline I like are Jonah and Cody Ford (minus taylor because i havent again seen him), both great polish with hand battles and power. Ford has shut down top players over and over it's been fun watching him and he's who I hope we end up drafting.


Just to touch back on the OT discussion. Take PFF for what it is, but here's some numbers just for extra info on the prospects.

Quote
Mike RennerVerified account@PFF_MikeApr 10

The amount of true pass sets taken in their careers by the OT class:

Andre Dillard: 966
Jonah Williams: 459
Dalton Risner: 418
Jawaan Taylor: 404
Cody Ford: 99


Quote
Mike RennerVerified account@PFF_MikeApr 10

Pass blocking grade on those snaps:

Andre Dillard: 87.8
Jonah Williams: 80.0
Dalton Risner: 91.6
Jawaan Taylor: 64.4
Cody Ford: 75.0


Quote
Mike RennerVerified account@PFF_MikeApr 10

True pass sets in our data defined as passes with 4+ pass-rushers, straight QB drop to 7+ yards, no play action, no screens, and took over 2 seconds for QB to throw


Quote
Mike RennerVerified account@PFF_MikeApr 10

Pass blocking grade on those snaps in just 2018:

Andre Dillard: 89.5 (284 snaps)
Jonah Williams: 82.5 (171)
Dalton Risner: 91.9 (153)
Jawaan Taylor: 74.6 (97)
Cody Ford: 75.0 (99)
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Apr 11 2019 08:24pm
Quote (Hako @ Apr 10 2019 07:55pm)
Yea after going back and looking at his stats, only two of those games he went for 20+ rushes and like you said, probably include some kneel downs as well.

I agree you can't go away from his ability to run, considering his legs are one of his best weapons, but they don't want to run him into the ground either. 200 carries over 16 games would be 12.5 carries per game. I could see that being around the sweet spot (give or take 8-10 designed runs per and then you'll obviously have some broken scramble plays as well), but it's still a lot of extra pounding for a QB to take.

How they decide to shape the Offense around him will be interesting though. I get it that they might want to go in more of the direction of zone, because you don't want to show your hand. If they run a more power based offense for the majority, but only run zone stretch stuff when it's a designed run with Jackson, it's going to be very telling and opposing DCs are going to pick up on that really fast.

Were most of his rushes from a zone stretch read last season, or were a lot of them just straight catch and go rushes, like as if you guys were running the Wildcat of years past? Mostly in shotgun formation when he ran, or did they mix it up with him rushing from under center quite a bit as well?

I think most of his overall snaps came in the shotgun, like 80% or something, and those runs probably came on read option plays. I don't recall any zone plays at all, but I wasn't exactly looking for it either. Keep in mind the offense was built for Flacco, so they didn't really touch the blocking scheme after the midseason switch. I think the notion that we'd switch to zbs is because of Roman's history with Kaepernick and Tyrod, but nothing official afaik
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Apr 11 2019 09:21pm
Quote (Terps @ Apr 11 2019 07:24pm)
I think most of his overall snaps came in the shotgun, like 80% or something, and those runs probably came on read option plays. I don't recall any zone plays at all, but I wasn't exactly looking for it either. Keep in mind the offense was built for Flacco, so they didn't really touch the blocking scheme after the midseason switch. I think the notion that we'd switch to zbs is because of Roman's history with Kaepernick and Tyrod, but nothing official afaik


Yea that's right they did build their playbook around Flacco. It's nearly impossible to change things up during the season. Especially for two completely different types of QBs. I'd assume a few dozen plays or so for Jackson and that's what they had to work with coming down the stretch.

Do you think the Ravens go WR heavy early in the draft? I know they drafted a couple TEs last year so they probably wont focus on that position much, but Jackson is going to need receiving help and your WR group is looking pretty rough imo.
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Apr 11 2019 09:55pm
Quote (Hako @ Apr 11 2019 11:21pm)
Yea that's right they did build their playbook around Flacco. It's nearly impossible to change things up during the season. Especially for two completely different types of QBs. I'd assume a few dozen plays or so for Jackson and that's what they had to work with coming down the stretch.

Do you think the Ravens go WR heavy early in the draft? I know they drafted a couple TEs last year so they probably wont focus on that position much, but Jackson is going to need receiving help and your WR group is looking pretty rough imo.

I mean they could go WR early, but unless they really hit on a stud WR, no one is going to make an immediate impact. The belief is that they want to trade down and recoup picks for not having a 2nd (given away in the Jackson trade last year). So assuming they do that, we're probably looking at only day 2 WRs anyway.

Our WR corps is pretty fucked regardless of who we draft. We have to hope someone emerges out of the trash heap we have at WR. It's going to be frustrating to watch when no one can beat single coverage. At least the TE corps is looking good, and the run game should be good.
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Apr 11 2019 10:57pm
Quote (Terps @ Apr 11 2019 08:55pm)
I mean they could go WR early, but unless they really hit on a stud WR, no one is going to make an immediate impact. The belief is that they want to trade down and recoup picks for not having a 2nd (given away in the Jackson trade last year). So assuming they do that, we're probably looking at only day 2 WRs anyway.

Our WR corps is pretty fucked regardless of who we draft. We have to hope someone emerges out of the trash heap we have at WR. It's going to be frustrating to watch when no one can beat single coverage. At least the TE corps is looking good, and the run game should be good.


Picking #22 opens up a lot of options really, hard to say who might still be on the board.

Maybe the 2nd LB if Devin Bush falls. Possibly the top WR, or top Safety. This CB class is all over the place (just like WR), so I wouldn't be surprised to see the top one go in the back half of the draft.

I think you guys also set yourself up nicely for a trade back/out of the 1st round, if somebody wanted to come up for a QB. Especially if a run happens and 3 of them go within the first 13 picks.
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Apr 11 2019 11:04pm
Quote (Hako @ Apr 12 2019 12:57am)
Picking #22 opens up a lot of options really, hard to say who might still be on the board.

Maybe the 2nd LB if Devin Bush falls. Possibly the top WR, or top Safety. This CB class is all over the place (just like WR), so I wouldn't be surprised to see the top one go in the back half of the draft.

I think you guys also set yourself up nicely for a trade back/out of the 1st round, if somebody wanted to come up for a QB. Especially if a run happens and 3 of them go within the first 13 picks.

There's no shortage of holes to fill, so BPA definitely doesn't have to be compromised just to reach on a WR.

C, edge, ILB are all positions that could be addressed early in addition to WR. I would really like one of the C prospects, since there's some good ones in this draft, and Skura is bad (although they might move Bozeman to C, which is where he played at Bama)
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Apr 11 2019 11:24pm
Quote (Hako @ Apr 11 2019 08:26pm)
Just to touch back on the OT discussion. Take PFF for what it is, but here's some numbers just for extra info on the prospects.



Wonder how they got their numbers as there is no way cody ford inly had 90 true passing blocks im his career or even last year alone. Also PFF has had a hardon for risner the past two seasons I doubt they'll stop now. Just watch the entire game tape of him vs actual talented teams like Miss St where sweat and co abused him the entire game



Found a write up i had on reddit about risner with the vikings subforum because as you could expect OLine is all we talk about now lol

"Guess we will have to agree to disagree, but watching his game tape on both Miss St / texas / oklahoma (his only really NFL level game tape this past season) he got harassed a majority of the game. The Miss St game when they involved different looks at blitz packages he looks lost at picking up who his guy was and would lead to a sack. Sweat dominated him a majority of that game and I don't agree one bit that he has good hands as he loses most hand fights. He gets very good body positioning on blocks but that was the only big thing I saw. Against Texas who doesn't run complex blitz packages I was looking at his movement in the run game and he gets close to none. He was capable of holding a block but got no push at all a majority of the time unless he boxed them out of position which is why I said his body positioning is a plus. But he really hasn't shown me at least that he gets much movement on the pocket in a positive way. But I am just a Couch Scout"


Then posted the game film of the three games listed above where Risner was slopppppy as fuck.

Compared him to cody fords game tape against top talented teams (ex. Bama/texas twice/ TCU) where he was dominate



/e I really want to watch Dillard as I havent had a chance to get around to it but hopefully I can watch some of his games tomrrow or whatever downtime o have before the draft. I dint realy have much thoughts on him yet either, not saying much since he'll probably go top 10 but through it all so far sweat and devin white are my favorites players i've watched

This post was edited by 4killer7 on Apr 11 2019 11:29pm
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Apr 12 2019 10:25am
Just finished watching WSU vs Oregon and wow Dillard balled out.... he shut down Jelks that entire game, oregon then tried stunting moving the DT over on a late rush and he would read it perfectly and outpower the DT stunt. Mirrored the speed rush perfectly, was able to quick shove and get to the second level. As you said it sucks you dont get to see many run plays would be nice to see if he gets movement or can out postion defenders. But just watching that game alone he seems amazing in pass protection
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Apr 12 2019 03:48pm
Quote (Terps @ Apr 11 2019 10:04pm)
There's no shortage of holes to fill, so BPA definitely doesn't have to be compromised just to reach on a WR.

C, edge, ILB are all positions that could be addressed early in addition to WR. I would really like one of the C prospects, since there's some good ones in this draft, and Skura is bad (although they might move Bozeman to C, which is where he played at Bama)


You guys would likely have the choice of the top C at 22, but its hard to say. Would you be upset if they took Metacalf, or some other WR at 22? There's a pretty big drop off at LB after White and Bush.

Quote (4killer7 @ Apr 12 2019 09:25am)
Just finished watching WSU vs Oregon and wow Dillard balled out.... he shut down Jelks that entire game, oregon then tried stunting moving the DT over on a late rush and he would read it perfectly and outpower the DT stunt. Mirrored the speed rush perfectly, was able to quick shove and get to the second level. As you said it sucks you dont get to see many run plays would be nice to see if he gets movement or can out postion defenders. But just watching that game alone he seems amazing in pass protection


He dominated that entire game vs Oregon. Hes great at using his eyes, seeing the stunts etc. etc. I wish I could find the clip that was going around a couple weeks back on twitter. I forget what game it was, but it was a clip of him pulling from his LT spot and moving to his right. Effortlessly through traffic and showed great patience and vision to find the defender coming on the edge and laid a perfect block to let the RB get out free and untouched for a nice run. It was very impressive. Smooth hips and feet while pulling/moving. Obviously his kick step is great and effortless, as seen by his pass protection skills, but that clip of him pulling and diagnosing the play/best defender to block looked so natural. I don't think it should surprise anybody if he goes top 10.
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Apr 12 2019 04:45pm
Quote (Hako @ Apr 12 2019 04:48pm)
You guys would likely have the choice of the top C at 22, but its hard to say. Would you be upset if they took Metacalf, or some other WR at 22? There's a pretty big drop off at LB after White and Bush.



He dominated that entire game vs Oregon. Hes great at using his eyes, seeing the stunts etc. etc. I wish I could find the clip that was going around a couple weeks back on twitter. I forget what game it was, but it was a clip of him pulling from his LT spot and moving to his right. Effortlessly through traffic and showed great patience and vision to find the defender coming on the edge and laid a perfect block to let the RB get out free and untouched for a nice run. It was very impressive. Smooth hips and feet while pulling/moving. Obviously his kick step is great and effortless, as seen by his pass protection skills, but that clip of him pulling and diagnosing the play/best defender to block looked so natural. I don't think it should surprise anybody if he goes top 10.



Ya I've immediately become a fan. He reads blitz pickups extremely well as youvsaid his vision and power are insane, very quick off the get up doesnt seem to hold. Sadly I dont think he is a guard and the vikings would be dumb to move Reiff inside, plus the LT talent next year so far seems to be insane, but I wouldnt be upset if he somehow fell and we grabbed him. Thay said I agree he could be a top 10 pick to you guys or a team like the bengals / bills.
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