Yanukovych's "goons" were responding to literal nazi insurrectionists who were trying to overthrow the government by force- and did. And once they had stormed the capitol and taken control of government, any 'vote' they held to legitimize themselves is an obvious and undeniable sham. I don't care about how many are imprisoned or the timeline of when the Nazis started murdering dissidents and opposition politicians this time around. Is that seriously the foundation of the west's claim to international law and legitimacy, that a parliament held hostage by gun-wielding nazis gave themselves the power to remove a president who had been lawfully elected?

In a civil society that actually follows the rules of democracy, there were plenty of recourses for people who opposed Yanukovych. He was up for reelection in just a year's time, and if the people so wanted to join the EU, they could have voted him out and gotten a president who would rebuke Russia. Except we both know that wouldn't happen, because Yanukovych and his RU-aligned agenda was supported by a majority of the voters. Because that is how a democracy is supposed to work.



Again, and I've said this how many times over the past 11 years- no matter what anyone says or contrives or tries to make wild excuses and confabulations to explain it away, it remains the fact that Ukraine was a democratic nation that was overthrown in a violent coup d'etat by insurrectionists who replaced the Ukrainian government with a western puppet regime. We all witnessed it. There's no pretending otherwise, and if anyone wants to die on the hill that the Nazi coup plotters who took power in an actual siege of a capitol were actually democratic representatives of the people- okay, believe what you want. I don't have to convince anyone. It won't change what the fact of the actual event was. It won't change how this war is going, and it won't change how Russia has responded to this NATO encroachment. The calculus remains exactly the same. Believing you are Elvis reincarnated doesn't win you the keys to Graceland.

Interference right in your face. But if certain countries do it. It is morally and legally right.

When Ukraine was part of russia perhaps? Idk

Russia's offer has been made formally and public now

Russia would give up the lands it holds in Kharkiv, Suny, and Dnipropetrovsk. They would freeze along status quo lines in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. They ask for the remaining Donbas, the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk.

He also sets a hard line of no NATO expansion in Ukraine, a requirement of Ukraine excluded from NATO, having its military wound down and will only agree to 3rd party peacekeepers from China, not NATO countries.

That's like Isengard guaranteeing peace between Mordor and Gondor.

Seriously now, china could play a good part but ukraine will never accept excluding nato countries. At that conditions ukraine could just give up right away.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Aug 22 2025 12:30am

As opposed to NATO countries that have funneled hundreds of billions to keep this war going? Pot meet kettle.

Best case for the peacekeepers IMO could be some UN like force. I don't understand why it has to be China or NATO when it could be a mix of all willing.

Pretty much all parties with any inpact have been involved in the conflict on one side. Be it nato or China. As you said a mix of as much players as possible would make sense.

I agree, it would at least have to be a joint peace keeping military to offset conflict of interest. Or a more realistic 'neutral' third party. Arms dealers playing referee stanks.

Ukrainian man arrested in Italy over NS pipelines sabotage. Allegedly he's one of the coordinators of a group of 6 that were on the sailing yacht Andromeda.

I'm sure Ukraine didn't do it though, they would never do such a thing. It must've been the Russians they blew up their own pipelines!

If I'm Big Z...



The first bit is laughable, Russia only occupies small swaths in these 3 areas near Kharkiv. But at least it shows Russia is willing to Concede something. To get the rest of Donbas in exchange is wildly unfair (but, ya know, life and especially war isn't fair)

In Skyrim terms this is Stormcloaks giving up Riften to gain Morthal.



Fair enough, these lines haven't moved in years and the river seems to make it too risky for either side to even try anymore. But still, this isn't a concession, the deal hasn't been swayed my direction by this because I don't believe Russia can cross the river even if it wanted to without massive casualties it isn't prepared to sustain.



See now this is the tough one. If Russia does not plan on launching another land grab invasion, what difference does it make if the now greatly diminished Ukraine joins NATO? Wind down the military, sure, that's kind of implied by ending the war and thus ending mobilization.



This last part must be trolling. China may or may not support Russia in this mediation, but it sure as shit does not support the West and represents a glaringly obvious bias. I'd feel better if it was America under Trump - though a NATO country, is the one that doesn't need permission to wag its power around and its current leader benefits enormously from a clean mediation and peace agreement.