d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1491049114912491349145001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Views: 378937Replies: 50000Track Topic
Member
Posts: 18,210
Joined: Jul 15 2014
Gold: 107.77
#49111
Jun 1 2025 06:42pm
Member
Posts: 34,649
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Gold: 273.37
#49112
Jun 1 2025 07:42pm
Quote (kayko @ May 30 2025 04:34am)
Russia already has the territories it wants.

The problem is Ukraine doesn’t want to negotiate.

Zelensky’s regime is the one that would absolutely collapse after peace is made.


Does Russia control Zaporizhia, Donetsk, and Kherson? If not, Russia does not have, at the bare minimum, what it wants.
Member
Posts: 9,234
Joined: Jul 28 2007
Gold: 11,301.28
#49113
Jun 2 2025 12:38am
Quote (Goomshill @ 1 Jun 2025 21:41)
Well what is the rule of 'fair game'? What do the rules of war say about commandos dressing up as civilians to carry out attacks deep inside another country?
The line between terrorism and warfare is blurred to the point of being undefined here, but I don't think the 'rules' ever mattered. In realpolitik its about what can be done and what will be done.

Can Russia afford to just shrug off these kinds of losses and carry on a conventional war in the face of an event that I think is only paralleled by 9/11, Pearl Harbor and the October 7th attacks? This was a widespread coordinated bombing by infiltrators disguised as commercial shipping, using smuggled drones. And it appears to have knocked out perhaps 10%+ of the entire Russian airforce in one swoop, maybe billions in damages. There comes a point where Russia has to escalate in response, and I'm not sure if this is that point.

Russia might decide its fair game to drop a tactical nuclear weapon on western Ukraine. If it was ever going to happen, its probably now.


Russian missle kills 95% civilians and your reaction is: There were soldiers there, valid target.
Ukraine destroys Russian military vehicles and your reaction is: Blurred line between terrorism and war.

Nice bias

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Jun 2 2025 12:38am
Member
Posts: 50,706
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 4,861.00
#49114
Jun 2 2025 01:17am
Quote (BaHgerAUT @ Jun 2 2025 01:38am)
Russian missle kills 95% civilians and your reaction is: There were soldiers there, valid target.
Ukraine destroys Russian military vehicles and your reaction is: Blurred line between terrorism and war.

Nice bias


Casualties in the Ukraine war have been 95% military so far, its rather notably a conflict where civilians have been mostly insulated from the fighting on both sides. What we just saw was Ukraine smuggle weapons into Russia, dress its agents as civilians and use drone carriers disguised as commercial trucks to carry out attacks 3000 miles from the front lines. We saw a suicide bomb assassination, two bridges destroyed and a train derailed. And in most of the attacks, civilians were killed

so yes that violates the old concept of rules of war

We are in a new stage of the war. Asymmetric warfare, much more akin to battles against ISIS or Al Qaeda. Russia is winning on the ground and so Ukraine has taken the attacks global, using the strategies of terrorists and saboteurs rather than a direct war. The question now is how Russia will respond.
Member
Posts: 15,924
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 102,354.50
#49115
Jun 2 2025 01:25am
Quote (BaHgerAUT @ Jun 2 2025 08:38am)
Russian missle kills 95% civilians and your reaction is: There were soldiers there, valid target.
Ukraine destroys Russian military vehicles and your reaction is: Blurred line between terrorism and war.

Nice bias


Complete BS or is it your bias lol

Civilian casualties have been remarkably low compared to for example the Iraq war of Gaza. Check the numbers
Member
Posts: 9,234
Joined: Jul 28 2007
Gold: 11,301.28
#49116
Jun 2 2025 02:00am
Quote (Goomshill @ 2 Jun 2025 09:17)
Casualties in the Ukraine war have been 95% military


If you count all dead civilians in the whole war yes. That applies to both sides, while russia is still leading by far (Bucha, Kachowka and countless missles on civilian buildings). I was referring to specific missle attacks like the one on, i think it was Sumy? It was heavily defended in this forum as there was some military personal present but 95% civilians.

So daily shootings of missles at ukraine infrastructure or blowing up the Kakhovka Dam is "direct war" and therefor totally fine. Driving to Russia and blowing up infrastructure and planes is "terrorism"

Nice framing

Quote (Djunior @ 2 Jun 2025 09:25)
Complete BS or is it your bias lol

Civilian casualties have been remarkably low compared to for example the Iraq war of Gaza. Check the numbers


Great! So everything is fine now as long as you kill less than USA did two decades ago.

Member
Posts: 50,706
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 4,861.00
#49117
Jun 2 2025 02:09am
Quote (BaHgerAUT @ Jun 2 2025 03:00am)
So daily shootings of missles at ukraine infrastructure or blowing up the Kakhovka Dam is "direct war" and therefor totally fine. Driving to Russia and blowing up infrastructure and planes is "terrorism"
Nice framing


Do you really not understand the difference between military weapons being fired in broad daylight from established military positions by uniformed troops, and operatives disguising themselves as civilians and hiding bombs in commercial trucks driven through a country under a false flag?
In world war 2 we had some pretty explicit legal wrangling over commandos who would wear opposing uniforms for surveillance and infiltration and remove them prior to attacking, to try to carefully straddle the line that Ukraine just blatantly crossed with this attack

You can frame it as perfidy, but terrorism is more apt. This is just the first attack by a drone carrier, we're going to see it repeated by terrorist groups around the world
Member
Posts: 9,234
Joined: Jul 28 2007
Gold: 11,301.28
#49118
Jun 2 2025 02:24am
Quote (Goomshill @ 2 Jun 2025 10:09)
Do you really not understand the difference between military weapons being fired in broad daylight from established military positions by uniformed troops, and operatives disguising themselves as civilians and hiding bombs in commercial trucks driven through a country under a false flag?
In world war 2 we had some pretty explicit legal wrangling over commandos who would wear opposing uniforms for surveillance and infiltration and remove them prior to attacking, to try to carefully straddle the line that Ukraine just blatantly crossed with this attack

You can frame it as perfidy, but terrorism is more apt. This is just the first attack by a drone carrier, we're going to see it repeated by terrorist groups around the world


Same outcome with different resources being used. Russia is using missle attacks, so their victim may also only use missle attacks, otherwise it's terrorism? I'd defend myself with all means if i get attacked, especially if i got much less resources than my bigger attacker.

Have you already declared russias attacks on a polish mall or german planes as terrorism by the way? Or destruction of undersea cables?

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Jun 2 2025 02:26am
Member
Posts: 50,706
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 4,861.00
#49119
Jun 2 2025 02:30am
Quote (BaHgerAUT @ Jun 2 2025 03:24am)
Same outcome with different resources being used. Russia is using missle attacks, so their victim may also only use missle attacks, otherwise it's terrorism? I'd defend myself with all means if i get attacked, especially if i got much less resources than my bigger attacker.
Have you already declared russias attacks on a polish mall or german planes as terrorism by the way? Or destruction of undersea cables?


I'm going to break this down to a granular level, like I would explaining something to a small child
Do you understand that in the laws of war, it matters if military units are uniformed and carrying out their attacks openly, versus being in disguise as civilians and carrying out sabotage?
Member
Posts: 9,234
Joined: Jul 28 2007
Gold: 11,301.28
#49120
Jun 2 2025 02:39am
Quote (Goomshill @ 2 Jun 2025 10:30)
I'm going to break this down to a granular level, like I would explaining something to a small child
Do you understand that in the laws of war, it matters if military units are uniformed and carrying out their attacks openly, versus being in disguise as civilians and carrying out sabotage?


So 2014-2022 was the time of russias terrorism, as they were not wearing the official uniforms. Got it.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Jun 2 2025 02:49am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1491049114912491349145001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact