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Mar 19 2025 05:59pm
Bolded words at the end are basically what some of us have been saying would happen for like 3 years now.

Quote
I rarely agree with President Trump, but his latest controversial statements about Ukraine are mostly true. They seem preposterous only because western audiences have been fed a steady diet of disinformation about Ukraine for more than a decade. It is time to set the record straight on three key points that illuminate why Ukrainians and former President Joe Biden — not merely Russian President Vladimir Putin — bear significant responsibility for the outbreak and perpetuation of war in Ukraine.

First, as recently documented by overwhelming forensic evidence, and affirmed even by a Kyiv court, it was Ukrainian right-wing militants who started the violence in 2014 that provoked Russia’s initial invasion of the country’s southeast including Crimea. Back then, Ukraine had a pro-Russia president, Viktor Yanukovych, who had won free and fair elections in 2010 with strong support from ethnic Russians in the country’s southeast.

In 2013, he decided to pursue economic cooperation with Russia rather than Europe as previously planned. Pro-western activists responded with mainly peaceful occupation of the capital’s Maidan square and government offices, until the president eventually offered substantial concessions in mid-February 2014, after which they mainly withdrew.

Just then, however, right-wing militants overlooking the square started shooting Ukrainian police and remaining protesters. Police returned fire at the militants, who then claimed bogusly that the police had killed the unarmed protesters. Outraged by this ostensible government massacre, Ukrainians descended on the capital and ousted the president, who fled to Russia for protection.

Putin responded by deploying troops to Crimea and weapons to the southeast Donbas region on behalf of ethnic Russians who felt their president had been undemocratically overthrown. While this backstory does not justify Russia’s invasion, it explains that it was hardly “unprovoked.”

Second, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky contributed to a wider war by violating peace deals with Russia and seeking NATO military aid and membership. The deals, known as Minsk 1 and 2, had been negotiated under his predecessor President Petro Poroshenko in 2014 and 2015 to end fighting in the southeast and protect endangered troops.

Ukraine was to guarantee Donbas limited political autonomy by the end of 2015, which Putin believed would be sufficient to prevent Ukraine from joining — or serving as a military base for — NATO. Regrettably, Ukraine refused for seven years to fulfill that commitment.

Zelensky even campaigned in 2019 on a promise to finally implement the accords to prevent further war. But after winning election, he reneged, apparently less concerned about risking war than looking weak on Russia.

Zelensky instead increased weapons imports from NATO countries, which was the last straw for Putin. So, on Feb. 21, 2022, Russia recognized the independence of Donbas, deployed troops there for “peacekeeping,” and demanded Zelensky renounce his quest for NATO military assistance and membership.

When Zelensky again refused, Putin massively expanded his military offensive on Feb. 24. Intentionally or not, Zelensky had provoked Russian aggression, although that obviously does not excuse Moscow’s subsequent war crimes.

Third, Joe Biden too contributed crucially to the escalation and perpetuation of fighting. In late 2021, when Putin mobilized forces on Ukraine’s border and demanded implementation of the Minsk deals, it seemed obvious that unless Zelensky relented, Russia would invade to at least form a land bridge between Donbas and Crimea.

Considering that Ukraine already was existentially dependent on U.S. military assistance, if President Biden had insisted that Zelensky comply with Putin’s request, it would have happened. Instead, Biden lamentably left the decision to Zelensky and pledged that if Russia invaded, the U.S. would respond “swiftly and decisively,” which Zelensky read as a green light to defy Putin.

Had Trump been president, he likely would not have provided such a blank check, so Zelensky would have had little choice but to implement the Minsk deals to avert war. Even if Zelensky had still refused and provoked Russia to invade, Trump would have denied him a veto over peace negotiations, which Biden recklessly gave by declaring, “There’s nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.”

That pledge tragically emboldened Ukraine to prolong the war in expectation of eventually decisive U.S. military aid, which Biden then refused to supply due to fear of nuclear escalation. In that way, Biden raised false hopes in Ukraine, needlessly perpetuating a war that has killed or wounded hundreds of thousands in the last two years alone during which the frontlines have shifted by less than 1 percent of Ukraine’s territory.

The basic outlines of a deal to end the fighting are obvious even if details remain to be negotiated, as Trump and Putin started doing today in a phone call. Russia will continue to occupy Crimea and other portions of the southeast, while the rest of Ukraine will not join NATO but will get security guarantees from some western countries. The sad thing is that such a plan could have been achieved at least two years ago if only President Biden had made military aid conditional on Zelensky negotiating a ceasefire.

Even more tragic, whatever peace deal emerges after the war will be worse for Ukraine than the Minsk accords that Zelensky foolishly abandoned due to his political ambitions and naïve expectation of bottomless U.S. support.


https://thehill.com/opinion/5198022-ukraine-conflict-disinformation/

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 19 2025 05:59pm
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Mar 19 2025 06:52pm
Bolded words at the end are basically what some of us have been saying would happen for like 3 years now.

https://thehill.com/opinion/5198022-ukraine-conflict-disinformation/


I'm really doubtful on the part where he claims that "even if details remain to be negotiated, [...] Ukraine will get security guarantees from some Western countries."

Ukraine evidently won't get credible, reliable security guarantees from Trump's America, but I also don't see any willingness by other Western countries to truly commit to Ukraine's defense, not in a way which would actually deter Russia. This point is the crux, and has already been the crux almost 3 years ago in Istanbul.
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Mar 19 2025 06:55pm


Putin has already broken this agreement, Russia again attacked Ukrainian energy infrastructure mere hours after his phone call with Trump. Furthermore, even if Russia was honoring the energy ceasefire, it would amount to next to nothing. I already explained why:

No visible progress and the Russians only offering the most transparently useless and cynical concession imaginable: a mutual stop of attacks on energy infrastructure for 30 days. Now that winter is coming to an end, their interest in bombing Ukrainian energy and heating infrastructure is of course winding down, while their interest in putting a stop to Ukrainian attacks on their refineries remains high.

Additionally, recent months have shown a frequency of roughly 14-21 days between major Russian attacks with ballistic missiles and such (as opposed to mere drone attacks which ofc happen daily). So a 30 day ceasefire on this type of attack basically means delaying their next "big one" by a week or two at most; and the low frequency suggests that they're limited by their ballistic missile production anyway. Skipping one round and launching twice as many Kalibrs and Iksandrs once the 30 days are up wouldn't change a damn thing.


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Mar 19 2025 07:26pm
Idk, maybe putin isn't the most honest person in the world

Russia left a Ukrainian city in total darkness overnight Wednesday after launching drones targeting energy infrastructure and two hospitals — less than two hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin promised President Trump he would halt such attacks.

Some 145 drones hit energy stations and even two hospitals, according to Kyiv — almost immediately after Putin promised Trump he would halt attacks on “energy and infrastructure.”
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Mar 19 2025 09:56pm
Idk, maybe putin isn't the most honest person in the world

Russia left a Ukrainian city in total darkness overnight Wednesday after launching drones targeting energy infrastructure and two hospitals — less than two hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin promised President Trump he would halt such attacks.

Some 145 drones hit energy stations and even two hospitals, according to Kyiv — almost immediately after Putin promised Trump he would halt attacks on “energy and infrastructure.”


The only possible excuse would be if those drones were already in the air by the time the phone call took place and this was unfortunate timing.
Let's see if there are more Russian attacks on Ukraine's energy infrastructure in the coming hours or days, or if Russia will honor the deal from now on.

But like I've said, even if this 30-day ceasefire on energy infrastrcuture attacks holds, it'll still be nearly useless.
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Mar 19 2025 10:25pm
Imagine we were 3 years into world war 1 and the kaiser wilhelm and woodrow wilson held high level talks agreeing to a framework for a peace deal and further negotiations and agreements not to use chemical weapons. And all the american press would write about is how its a total failure because he didn't produce a total peace deal in the first couple weeks of negotiations after 3 years into a war. Of course, most of the neoliberals are bloodthirsty and just want more war 'to the last ukrainian' so they'd try to scuttle peace talks any way they could. But all the conventional logic shows we're on track for a real peace deal right now. A couple weeks ago the #1 challenge was the continued Ukrainian presence in Kursk, which Russia would not abide and required them to either trade disproportionately in negotiations or continue their conventional campaign until they reclaimed it. Which they did, rapidly. Now the door is open and Putin has an actual reason to freeze the conflict and solidify his gains and talk land swaps.

But imagine Trump actually does fail. Imagine a year from now, the war is still raging and Trump's peace talks came to nothing. Then jesus, at least he failed at trying to secure peace. Joe Biden spent 3 years trying to make this conflict worse and get more people killed and take us to the edge of WW3 and failed at winning anything from it. He fought a losing proxy war. Trump is trying to end it, and right now it sure looks like he will accomplish that in a matter of weeks or months.
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Mar 19 2025 10:48pm
https://files.catbox.moe/zgtrc0.mp4


What am I looking at here?
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Mar 20 2025 12:34am
What am I looking at here?


Ukrainian children at school are filling bottles with shrapnel for drone drops, thereby becoming unlawful combatants. It's like Palestine in the worst sense, right in the center of Europe.
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Mar 20 2025 12:51am
Ukrainian children at school are filling bottles with shrapnel for drone drops, thereby becoming unlawful combatants. It's like Palestine in the worst sense, right in the center of Europe.


When the invasion first started and Russian troops were blitzing Kyiv, Azov put out a video of them not just having school children assembling molotovs but instructing them on how to crawl under Russian tanks, the last line of defense. If you've got a minute, I might be able to elaborate on my own personal distaste because my gramps once wrote up his experiences in the war and one page of it really covers what he saw first hand after crossing the Rhine



^ the last line of defense
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Mar 20 2025 12:55am
People aren't upset because he's trying to end the war, they're upset because he talked a really big game and it now turns out that he has no real plan, and never had one to begin with.


What does he have beyond

"Hey Zelensky, your war is really inconvenient. Could you maybe, like... surrender unconditionally? That would be cool!"
and
"Hey Putin, since this war was only ever about Russia feeling (rightfully!) threatened by NATO and totally not about restoring your empire, could you maybe... just stop this war if I promise you no Ukraine in NATO and also no NATO troops near the Russian borders? Totally no reason for you to advance any further and take territory on the battlefield just because you can, right? Right!?"


Maybe Trump will figure something out eventually, but for now, he needs to go back to the drawing board. :rolleyes:

None of that implies that any progress toward a proper ceasefire or peace deal was made.


You have no argument. Trump campaigned on ending the war, was voted in to office and kept his promise by simply picking up the phone and calling Putin in an attempt to start the process.

And that's how it works. Funny that you suddenly forget how things work in the real world.

Mind you Biden had three years to pick up the phone but he didn't. Instead he sent hundreds of billions to Ukraine and as a result the country got completely wrecked, which was predictable. What a shit show
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