Quote (babun1024 @ 19 Feb 2025 19:02)

Zelensky isn't a dictator. he isn't just authorized to discuss or authorize any peace agreement about Ukraine's territorial integrity. He could capitulate but he can't surrender any part of Ukraine to anyone. You need elections to have someone who's got the mandate of the people NOW to negotiate. The world was very different 3 years ago. That's what a democracy means btw.

Quote (ferdia @ 21 Feb 2025 04:05)

last one for now, guys, break my posts please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leDZuiaO5ls

/edit ty Black

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 20 Feb 2025 21:00)

I'm still trying to occasionally hold up the pro-Ukraine mantle somewhat (which btw is not the same as 'pro-war'), but a lot of the debates and squabbles over details would require more time, effort and energy than I can muster these days.
To name just one example: the degree to which China is supplying Russia with the goods it needs to keep the war going.


Volume of tractor imports to Russia in 2019: $1.38b
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/tractors/reporter/rus?latestTrendsFlowSelector=flow0&yearExportSelector=exportYear5

2021: $1.59b
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/tractors/reporter/rus?latestTrendsFlowSelector=flow0&yearExportSelector=exportYear3

2023: $3.92b (95% of which are now coming from China)
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/tractors/reporter/rus?latestTrendsFlowSelector=flow0&yearExportSelector=exportYear1


Man, Russia's agricultural sector must be boooooming!! :rofl:





So that's just an example from a debate I started and then abandoned with ofthevoid a couple of days ago. Simply don't have the time or motivation to dig deep like this all the time, just for the sake of debates in this thread.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 20 2025 08:18pm)

I was referring to Trump, not the Western media in general. Trump publicly calls Zelensky a dictator and not sufficiently legitimized to represent Ukraine during the negotiations, yet he clearly has no such qualms with regard to Putin. I agree with Trump far more often than not, but in this case, he has adopted a really shitty and plain untrue talking point peddled by the Russians.

We all know what's really behind his remarks: he dislikes Zelensky and doesn't want him to sit at the negotiation table out of personal and tactical reasons. He wants to engage in naked power politics with Putin and thinks Zelensky or the Europeans would only stand in the way. He should just be honest about it instead of hiding behind such a bs excuse.

Quote (Djunior @ 20 Feb 2025 21:41)

Zelensky not only refuses to hold elections he weeded out the opposition, shut down all media that were critical of him and he even shut down the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Anyone who criticizes Zelensky can expect the secret service knocking on their door. The guy is not only a dictator, under his leadership Ukraine was turned into a police state.

BTW you know that the EU progressives call Victor Orban a dictator? So far I haven't seen you vent your frustration that they call Hungary's president who won the elections a dictator.

Quote (Djunior @ Feb 20 2025 08:41pm)

Zelensky not only refuses to hold elections he weeded out the opposition, shut down all media that were critical of him and he even shut down the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Anyone who criticizes Zelensky can expect the secret service knocking on their door. The guy is not only a dictator, under his leadership Ukraine was turned into a police state.

BTW you know that the EU progressives call Victor Orban a dictator? So far I haven't seen you vent your frustration that they call Hungary's president who won the elections a dictator.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 20 2025 02:32pm)

This was clearly his modurs operandi with the Panama canal stuff, the tariffs or his plans to resettle the Gazans (which really got Egypt, Jordan and SA going). So it would make sense to view his approach to Ukraine in the same light. I've had this thought as well. Upon closer inspection, I'm not sure though if this really adds up. Like I've said before, his current proposal is actually too favorable for Ukraine, relative to how much their back is against the wall on the battlefield. And that's further exacerbated by the prospect of Trump pulling the plug on the funding and arms supplies for Ukraine. So chances are that Russia will feel emboldened to make significantly more far-reaching demands, for example the complete demilitarization of Ukraine. This, in turn, means that Trump is fostering a negotiating process in which he will end up looking weak and ineffective when everything is said and done.

Unlike with Panama, Canada, Greenland or Gaza, he's not projecting strength and force to get concessions, he's giving up leverage and strengthening the position of the other side. A bit more strategic ambiguity would have really served him well going into the Ukraine negotiations. So I'm no longer sure if this is really a deliberate, masterful bargaining tactic; perhaps he just genuinely wants to drop Ukraine like a hot potato, consequences and optics be damned.