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Feb 13 2025 01:30pm
A little birdie told me that they are already printing voting ballots in Ukraine.


To be honest Zelensky is probably pretty happy about the opportunity to get out of dodge, i would in his shoes. This is finally his chance to get out before things get bad. He will end up in some private mansion in Spain or Miami tucked away and live the rest of his life in luxury while those left back in Ukraine will be searching for who to point the finger at as western funding dries up and you're left with a poor country that has damaged infrastructure and you have all these other states trying to extract whatever natural resources you have left. What a sad outcome, feel bad for the Ukrainian people. Most never signed on for this BS but will suffer regardless.
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Feb 13 2025 01:37pm
To be honest Zelensky is probably pretty happy about the opportunity to get out of dodge, i would in his shoes. This is finally his chance to get out before things get bad. He will end up in some private mansion in Spain or Miami tucked away and live the rest of his life in luxury while those left back in Ukraine will be searching for who to point the finger at as western funding dries up and you're left with a poor country that has damaged infrastructure and you have all these other states trying to extract whatever natural resources you have left. What a sad outcome, feel bad for the Ukrainian people. Most never signed on for this BS but will suffer regardless.


Goom already made a succinct summary of what happened to previous US proxies.

Just looking at how its shook out over history

Nguyễn Văn Thiệu in south Vietnam escaped his country, settled in Boston and lived quietly for 40 years and died of natural causes

Ngô Đình Diệm didn't fare so well and like Malopox said, caught a CIA bullet during their coup

Pepe San Roman who led the bay of pigs invasion was captured and imprisoned, but released by Castro a year later and settled in Miami and lived quietly for 30 years and died of suicide

Lon Nol who we backed in Cambodia, escaped the Khmer Rouge and settled in Fullerton California and lived quietly for 5 years and died of natural causes

Osama Bin Laden, who we backed in Afghanistan OOOooooohhhhhhh right

Anastasio Somoza Debayle fled the Sandinistas and escaped to Miami with a lot of Nicaragua's national treasures, but Carter denied him asylum and he settled in Paraguay and was assassinated a year later

Hamid Karzai and his family still live in Kabul and the Taliban respect him enough, while Ashraf Ghani fled during the fall to Uzbekistan and settled in Dubai and has been there since

I think its far more likely Zelensky settles in the west somewhere. Russia isn't about to storm Kiev and take him by surprise, and while there's a strong potential for a power vacuum after US support dries up that results in a coup by Banderites seizing control, even in that scenario its more likely Zelensky survives to flee to the west and starts driving ubers in Philly.[/QUOTE


He did unfairly forget Saddam Hussein though:
I think you have unfairly forgotten the fate of late Saddam Hussein who has been a crucial middle eastern ally in 1970-1990 including fighting communism as well as a disastrous proxy war against Iran. Military industrial complex made a shitload of money supplying WMDs, chemical weapons and materiel for that proxy war.

https://i.imgur.com/QfEd1y9.gif

His reign ended when USSR collapsed as his services against communists were no longer needed. His mistake was also destroying WMDs and chemical weapons after he used them against Kurds as he was unable to hand said weaponry over later on while US knew how much and what they sold to him. Scott Ritter famously was the guy that raised alarms that Iraq has no more WMDs and chemical weapons, but alas.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/09/wikileaks-april-glaspie-and-saddam-hussein/
He furthermore misinterpreted US Ambassadors April Glaspie’s comment about Kuwait and invaded it to stop the theft of Iraqi oil (confirmed by UN at the time) only to be publicly made an enemy number one even though he immediately offered full and immediate surrender to the Americans. It’s exemplary that his genocidal excesses were overlooked when he was an ally, but were thrust forward into the spotlight once he became of no use. The rest as they say is history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8BGpohOupQ


This post was edited by Malopox on Feb 13 2025 01:39pm
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Feb 13 2025 01:39pm
To be honest Zelensky is probably pretty happy about the opportunity to get out of dodge, i would in his shoes. This is finally his chance to get out before things get bad. He will end up in some private mansion in Spain or Miami tucked away and live the rest of his life in luxury while those left back in Ukraine will be searching for who to point the finger at as western funding dries up and you're left with a poor country that has damaged infrastructure and you have all these other states trying to extract whatever natural resources you have left. What a sad outcome, feel bad for the Ukrainian people. Most never signed on for this BS but will suffer regardless.


Didn't they choose it though? Their elected representatives drove out those who opposed conflict with Russia through violence and intimidation. They chose war, understanding (I hope?) the consequences of losing that war. Evidence on this very thread shows what their opinion of Russians was - they were demonized and dehumanized while their deaths were cheered on.

This post was edited by El1te on Feb 13 2025 01:42pm
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Feb 13 2025 01:41pm
what that shows (for ppl not understanding) is that the EU is NOT capable of creating a defense framework / deterrent without the US (funding).
so they are in lala land right now throwing all their toys while they figure out how to find a win right now.


The US are vastly overspending, though.

The following chart provides a clearer picture:


China and India pose no realistic military threat to Europe due to the geographic distance, and the rest of NATO without the US still outspend Russia by almost 2:1, even if we're looking at PPP. And the rest of NATO has the significantly larger population and industrial capacity. France and the UK also have nukes. Realistically, Russia can't conquer Western Europe by military means. Side note: the numbers, troop sizes and industrial potential leaned far more toward the Eastern bloc during the Cold War; back then, an invasion by the Warsaw Pact was a realistic threat.

There are, of course, massive issues with a lack of combat readiness all across Europe. Decades of underspending have left our militaries in shambles. This needs to be fixed. It does not, however, mean that we should start spending 5% of our GDP on the military...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 13 2025 01:41pm
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Feb 13 2025 01:43pm
Goom already made a succinct summary of what happened to previous US proxies.



He did unfairly forget Saddam Hussein though:


No, Abu Zelya al-Jahudi would rather die like a mujahid

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Feb 13 2025 01:46pm
No, Abu Zelya al-Jahudi would rather die like a mujahid

https://i.imgur.com/dlli14R.jpeg


Don’t spoil the events of 2026

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Feb 13 2025 01:47pm
what does the german military industrial complex look like? or are they just purchasing US weapons rather than making them?

the whole thing screams of Iraq circa 2001, bunches of people telling you we need war that all secretly hold MIC stocks.


France and Germany have a sizable military industry and provide the bulk of the arms which other European countries are buying IF they're not buying from the yanks.

The following chart shows the share of various countries among the global arms exports for the 2016-2020 period:


Israel is REALLY punching above its weight when you consider how tiny the country is...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 13 2025 01:48pm
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Feb 13 2025 01:48pm
Didn't they choose it though? Their elected representatives drove out those who opposed conflict with Russia. They chose war, understanding (I hope?) the consequences of losing that war. Evidence on this very thread shows what their opinion of Russians was - they were demonized and dehumanized while their deaths were cheered on.


Most IMO did not chose it. The protests in 2014 were hijacked by ultranationalists that CIA and others backed for geopolitical interest. A lot of the power structure just flipped out of self preservation and it was easy when you have western money flowing in. The average Ukrainian IMO did not want this war. I know a lot of Ukrainians, many nowadays i would say hate Russia but they aren't neo nazi pravi sector/azov types, at least the most i talk to in the US. I hope when this is over the ultranationalists go back into hiding because really they are to blame for so much that happened. The risk is they become militant and behave like the mob and coerce the power structure to do what they want. That would be very bad for Ukraine and would be objectively worse to pre-war. Las thing you want is a bunch of well armed thugs that have combat experience running the cities.
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Feb 13 2025 02:19pm
By the way, does anyone know how important the relationship with Russia was as a campaign issue during Ukraine's 2019 election?

From my foreign voyeur perspective, it felt like corruption played a much more prominent role, with many Ukrainians unhappy about how Poroshenko had basically just replaced the old oligarchy with himself and his cronies, so they voted for Zelensky, the comedian who promised to drain the swamp.

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Feb 13 2025 02:36pm
France and Germany have a sizable military industry and provide the bulk of the arms which other European countries are buying IF they're not buying from the yanks.

The following chart shows the share of various countries among the global arms exports for the 2016-2020 period:
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/24412.jpeg

Israel is REALLY punching above its weight when you consider how tiny the country is...


If only they legalized the Uzi, those export numbers would go to the moon
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