Russian made subway station "Museum of History" in Kharkiv is covered with high Ukrainian art. A legless soldier of the recent counter-offensive included (unlike Russian agressors they don't get paid, they volunteer, ehm forcibly volunteer by their own government, ehm coup).



This post was edited by Norlander on Dec 29 2024 08:11am

Another good Willy OAM vid

Russia already controlled all of Crimea, 95++% of LPR and some 50+% of DPR before this war even broke out, though. The metric for the success of this war has to be "territory gained via actual warfare", rather than "total territory controlled".

The metric for Russia victory is whether Ukraine is in Nato or not. whether Russia steals more or less land, is a by product, not the goal.
Also, honestly? In terms of Israel, the same principle applies, the metric of territorial theft is a by product, not the goal.

While the Western hawks and media spins a narrative of russian imperialism it is quite easily refuted (and multiple users have repeated refuted this, with no meaningful counter argument evidenced). This narrative simply does not hold up, as one should be able to accept by now, using simple facts and logic.

Every one goes silent whenever anyone points to the Map of Ukraine and how far Russia has gone. If Russia wanted all of Ukraine it would have fully mobilized, its as simple as that. All counter arguments fail woefully to move beyond this point.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 29 2024 08:28pm

They are all purposefully reductionist metrics. Russia held the entirety of Ukraine in its sphere of influence prior to 2014, even if it was a loosely sovereign country. Now half the country is in the grip of the west, and half in the clutches of Putin. But their net loss is the west's fools prize, we get a bombed out and depopulated ghetto state with sparse resources, a flood of migrants and more strain on the EU welfare net. Russia gets the bulk of the resources, manufacturing and control of the sea. Russia expends large amounts of blood and treasure while the US and EU lose only a few private citizen loons turned mercs, Ukrainian lives don't matter to us in the slightest. But Russia wins the war and makes the west look weak and undercuts our claim to global hegemony and world order. You can't boil that all down to lines on a map

Yea, that's a fair point. But by bringing these stats I meant that Ukraine can trade Kursk oblast for Mykolaiv and Kharkiv oblasts only, if lucky.

the first part is a fair point. yes i am being pedantic.

I tend to agree, we can't tell if the metric of success of this war has to be the territories gained by the actual warfare since the war is not over yet. There's always a chance for so called diplomatic success.

sorry to clarify, my view is that territories gained / lost is a by product, it was not the reason for the war in the first place. russia had objectives. those objectives were not "we will take x amount of land". russia had security concerns and until those concerns are resolved no amount of land gained / lost can be considered a metric, indeed, its not a metric.

its like being in a race, a 100m sprint, and you also get to bang the cheerleader if you win. whether you bang the cheerleader or not may be a by product of the race, but winning the medal is the metric. i.e. no Nato.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 30 2024 06:31am