Quote (xGeArz @ Sep 4 2011 08:40pm)
It doesn't matter if you find it hard to believe lmao.....my strength has gone up and body fat has gone down and muscle has stayed the same or grown since starting.
I never said it is the best way to cut, I said it's not garbage. Simple macro manipulation isn't anything new......that's what IF is with morning fasting/fasted training thrown in. Can you show me a study that shows substantial muscle loss happening within a short amount of time? Like a 17 hour fast? I'd love to see them.
Martins clients usually construct blogs to show their progress so you can go look up whoever you want and question them for yourself if you want to.
NOBODY here should be comparing ANYTHING they are doing to ANY major bodybuilder or powerlifter, why you would use them as NON-IF users is beyond me.
If you would like to send me some traditional calorie restricting superiority research let me know.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865?dopt=AbstractThat's clearly supportive of IF'ing over traditional calorie restriction, and it's pretty recent.
2. Fasting for extended periods of time (without bcaa's) will result in atrophy -Of the studies I've seen, muscle wasting did not happen until the 3 days mark....lol.
"Only in prolonged fasting does protein catabolism become an issue. This happens when stored liver glycogen becomes depleted. In order to maintain blood glucose, conversion of amino acids into glucose must occur (DNG: de novo glucogenesis). This happens gradually and if amino acids are not available from food, protein must be taken from bodily stores such as muscle. Cahill looked at the contribution of amino acids to DNG after a 100 gram glucose load. He found that amino acids from muscle contributed 50% to glucose maintenance after 16 hours and almost 100% after 28 hours (when stored liver glycogen was fully depleted). Obviously, for someone who eats a high protein meal before fasting, this is a moot point as you will have plenty of aminos available from food during the fast."
There is a strong difference between short term (16 hour fasting) between whatever you are thinking of....I'm assuming long term.
3. Fasting is no longer fasting when you intake a constant stream of BCAA's....to be quite honest you are doing the same thing by superdosing BCAA's as you would just drinking a few shakes. Of course the shakes would be much cheaper. Calories from the shake vs the bcaa's? Obviously the shakes contain more but they are also more complete and thus will provide your body with a more complete peptide surplus.
There is not a constant stream of bcaa's and I never said there was. Bcaas are taken 5-15 minutes pre-workout. This increases p70s6k phosphorylation..making your post workout 8 hour feeding very favorable, and works against atrophy from heavy intensity.
You will not atrophy from a 16-18 hour fast....and if you do you are doing something very wrong. You may need to look into this more because it seems you're misconstruing fundamental aspects of this type of dieting and you need to learn what it is fully about before calling it garbage.
That's my only reply and will leave you to your expert advice. I'm only offering a different view to somebody who I think was given a one sided opinion on a very good alternative way of dieting/training.
Here are the problems with your argument...
First of all the study you showed me was very brief and not conducted for long enough to establish proper conclusions. Secondly, that was based on a 24 hour fast + a 24 hour eat whatever you want diet VS reduced calorie by itself. This is NOT the premise of the traditional Intermittent Fasting that your pal martin goes into..14-18 hours of fasting vs 24 hours may or may not be a big difference, although the study would have to be completely redone to compensate for the differentials. Moreover this study is hardly complete and skewed at best. If you troll the medical journals a bit more you will find a study of ketosis dieting vs intermittent fasting and be shocked by the OBVIOUS findings.
In regard to muscle wasting - you are missing a very key element. 3 days has nothing to do with when the body begins tapping into the lean tissue to break down peptides for energy expenditure unless you are ENTIRELY sedentary during those 3 days. In that case yes, it would take about 3 days to sap your glycogen stores. However think carefully...when you are weight training especially, glycogen is depleted rapidly. Granted you will refuel later that night as part of IF - the overall totality of glycogen depletion continues on during the muscle rebuilding phase overnight. During this time, your glycogen stores will gradually deplete and will most likely drop low enough to have the body begin sapping muscle for energy. Don't forgot, MOST of these studies are conducted on those who are NOT physically active and attempting to sculpt muscular physiques.
Finally we will move into the last bastion of this hopeless argument....
When the body is in starvation mode, secondary cellular production and repair significantly slows down to accommodate primary processes. Muscle repairs much slower during starvation mode, and if one plans to make "gains" during IF - they will be sadly mistaken. If you claim to have gained ANYTHING during IF, I can assure you of one of three things:
1. You are not doing IF exactly as it is described.
2. You are a 100% mesomorph
3. You are incorrect in your assumptions of gaining muscle either through placebo effect or skewed interpretation.
No, the IF diet is not a good choice for ANYONE in my book. I have trained literally hundreds of people who have all seen outstanding progress with my traditional plans which have been built upon decades of research and implementation.
If you want to be good at what you do, follow what the best of the best of your field does...make small changes as necessary...try new things occasionally within reason...and you will be able to achieve anything.
The fact of the matter is, if you used a proper CKD, your results would far surpass anything IF has done for you....while also decreasing the risk of many various health concerns associated with IF.