Quote (hoipolloi @ Mar 22 2021 12:42am)
I'm sorry but not having results and then results coming subsequent to praying does not mean it is god. That is just completely and utterly illogical. You have to demonstrate it is the case.
That's like saying you weren't getting along with your girlfriend but you started brushing your teeth with a pencil and the relationship improved. So brushing your teeth with a pencil must improve relationships
What you are engaged in is actually a fallacy. Literally fallacious thinking. That means you are transgressing the bounds of reasonable thinking. Do you even realize that?
Post hoc ergo propter hoc. After x, therefore because of x. Humans have been using faulty thinking like yours for a long time now. Aristotle and his band of merry logicians came along to set us straight. You and most other Christian' didn't get the message (sorry I assume)
I said I didn't care about your research because it isn't something you can research. Unless you went to the middle east and started digging up ancient testimonies corroborated by extra biblical sources and evidence of his rising, or independent attestations to anything relevant, it doesnt matter. People have looked. As it is there is a book making claims WHICH ARE INSUFFICIENT evidence to meet the miraculous claims it purports. The burden of proof has not been met. You are not justified in your beliefs if you want to consider yourself reasonable.
Quote (hoipolloi @ Mar 22 2021 12:53am)
You know what your argument is like.
It's like you go to a buffet and every food you try you have never had before. There are 50 food items and you take a bite of each
Then, following severe cramping and indigestion an hour later, you point to a food and say it was that one that upset my stomach! But you just ate 50 new foods. How could you possibly know what food caused it? You go back and eat them again or whatever you do to try to establish which food it was. Good.
A CLAIM must BE DEMONSTRATED to be the case if you want reason and logic on your side, you don't just get to assume things as facts. That isn't how reason works.
By the way in the case of god, you can't try the foods again. You are as far as we know, being restricted to methodological naturalism, NOT ABLE to test for god. Therefore the correct response to the god question is I DON'T KNOW, and I need more information. The burden of proof is not met. I withhold belief pending sufficient evidence.
You might say that the first 2 times but what about the next 100 times? At what point do you think that something is up when your prayers are answered? Each time your prayer is answered, the argument of coincidence just grows weaker and weaker. Eventually you change your mind. Obviously you haven't reached that point yet.
You go on to say that is completely and utterly illogical. Again, the first few times you might say that but what happens if the results keep on happening after you pray? Doesn't that in itself mean you should pray more often?
You really need to work on your analogies. I read that and I'm only thinking what kind of analogy is that?
I gave you one example of a prayer that was answered. What happens if I give you many, many more? There are many examples that I could give where my prayers yielded results shortly after. I can see you are only building on your original claim. Have you even tried prayer?
The things I researched are things that I cannot research? Are you telling me that I am unable to research the Grand Canyon which was caused by the worldwide flood? The only account of a global flood is in the book of Genesis. Are you telling me that I cannot research the 10 Bible prophecies that were fulfilled in 1948? That year is recent enough that you can look up the historical sites to confirm what happened and how The Bible foretold even those things? Are you telling me that when The Bible makes an outrageous claim that you can't go out and ask questions, seek the answer and find what you are looking for? Are you saying I can't apply what is written in The Bible to my life and see the comparison? Are you saying that Luke can't go out and speak to the eyewitness accounts of Jesus and write them down? Here we are many years later reading the eye based witness accounts that Luke did for us. Read his opening statement in the book of Luke.
No, I disagree. You have already come to the conclusion that you can't research and so you won't take the time to read what has been researched for you. The only argument I have seen from you is a one sentence answer of "This isn't evidence". I've heard it all before and I have yet to hear something from you other than "This isn't evidence."
On one hand we have me posting all of my research articles over the years:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=73889562&f=119&p=525625079#p525625079 - 10 Bible Prophecies fulfilled in 1948.
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71850688&f=125&o=0#p483628339 - Revelation Series.
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=67022928&f=125&o=0#p449254948 - Top 10 questions.
On the other hand we have: "I said I didn't care about your research because it isn't something you can research."
Looking at those two comparisons, logically speaking, I am much more open and logical than your one sentence rebuttal. That is quite simply the only thing you can respond because you have no other argument.
Why do I need to go to the middle east when others would have done that for us already? Better yet why does an entire country on the other side of the world need to go to the middle east when we can simply open Luke's Gospel and read the eyewitness accounts?
God's word is very easily accessible. Simply open The Bible or go onto Biblegateway and start reading.
Again if you read Romans 1:20 - "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
You CANNOT claim ignorance and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If you ask the Lord God almighty, He has given sufficient evidence for us to believe in him. He has given his Son Jesus Christ. Ever heard of doubting Thomas? The thing is with doubting Thomas, even he believed after he was given the evidence.
Your problem is NOT that you lack evidence that God exists, your problem is that you are a sinner and you do not want to believe that you are heading towards a pathway to destruction. You do not want to believe that you are a terrible person who is in need of saving. You do not want to believe that you have been chasing after the wind all of your life and how it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Ever read frodo's opening statement on Romans? Romans 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
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