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Oct 12 2020 01:25pm
i like some of the proposed changes, for instance the relegation playoffs tweak is very interesting as that’s similiar to the German league iirc, but this reeks of consolidation of further influence for the top clups
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Oct 12 2020 06:29pm
Quote (dro94 @ Oct 12 2020 08:08pm)
At the end of the day, people don't tune in from Lahore to watch Burnley but they do for United


Yes, but it wasn't always that way was it. Which is exactly the point. Whilst favourable conditions help cement the "big 6", it wasn't that many years ago that there was a "big 4". Hell, it wasn't even that many years ago that teams like Blackburn were smashing transfer records, that Leeds stood tall in the premier league, that teams as shit as forest were claiming European trophies.

The point is there are more than 6 (or 9 if we're being pedantic) teams that make Premier league football what it is, or at least, what it should be.

And it shouldn't take selling our souls to do what is right by the pyramid either.
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Oct 13 2020 12:36am
Tottenham Hotspur will be able to claim back around £125 million for the costs of their new stadium and Liverpool around £30 million on their newly-built Main stand under a clause in the “Project Big Picture” (PBP) proposals, backed by the current Premier League champions and Manchester United....

FoR the GoOd Of ThE gAmE. :rolleyes:

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Oct 13 2020 03:27am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ Oct 13 2020 01:29am)
Yes, but it wasn't always that way was it. Which is exactly the point. Whilst favourable conditions help cement the "big 6", it wasn't that many years ago that there was a "big 4". Hell, it wasn't even that many years ago that teams like Blackburn were smashing transfer records, that Leeds stood tall in the premier league, that teams as shit as forest were claiming European trophies.

The point is there are more than 6 (or 9 if we're being pedantic) teams that make Premier league football what it is, or at least, what it should be.

And it shouldn't take selling our souls to do what is right by the pyramid either.
Top 6 are not even being subtle about pretending it's not all about setting up a closed shop to ensure another Chelsea or City - superclub created out of somebody's else wealth rather than success on the pitch - never happens again.

Interesting timing of the whole reveal anyway, it's taken all the spotlight away from PPV plans :lol:
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Oct 13 2020 04:49am
FOOTBALL | MATT DICKINSON
Premier League’s ‘big six’ want to kill chance of next Leicester City fairytale
A pandemic, with the game at its most vulnerable, has provided the opportunity to launch a hostile takeover
Matt Dickinson
Tuesday October 13 2020, 12.01am, The Times
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It is 59 years since Tottenham Hotspur won the English league title, only four years since Leicester City pulled off one of the most sensational and inspiring achievements in all of sport.

One club is invited by John W Henry to join him in carving up English football — deciding on the rules, vetoing owners if they so choose, shovelling more cash to the wealthiest — while the other is treated with contempt.

“We don’t want too many Leicester Citys,” an anonymous football executive told The Independent a little while ago. Project Big Picture is the bare-faced embodiment of that jaw-dropping quote.

Never mind the “big six” — Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham — Leicester would not even qualify as one of three patsies invited to sit with the big boys while they reshape the game. Everton, Southampton and West Ham United are the lucky three offered Special Voting Rights on time served in the top flight (though they could be out-voted by a two-thirds majority, ie the “big six”, so are basically there just to get the coffees in).

Crystal Palace would be next. Leicester have to wait in line like obedient servants.

Those who think this proposal is a financial lifeline for EFL clubs that must be grabbed in desperation need to pause — it should only take a second — and understand why these demands are simply non-negotiable.

It is not only that Henry and his ilk do not want too many Leicester miracles, and want to make it as hard as possible for another as they seek to protect their cartel. Does Henry even see the point of clubs like Leicester?

There was a profile piece about the Liverpool owner yesterday, by a journalist who has dealt with him, which explained how Project Big Picture had started to form in Henry’s mind as far back as 2012, when he fully realised the wealth-sharing system of the Premier League.


This went against all his capitalist instincts. In Henry’s mind, apparently, it was hard to see the point of the likes of, say, Blackburn Rovers and Stoke City and half a dozen other clubs who came and went from the top flight, yo-yoing up and down, scrapping against the odds, taking cash even in the Championship.

For an American, the division was stacked with minor league clubs playing in the majors. And, worst of all, these schmucks got money that could be Liverpool’s by rights given their heritage and popularity in Asia.

Ian Ayre, the former Liverpool chief executive, once clumsily picked on Bolton Wanderers to articulate how these apparently piddling clubs — a founder member of the oldest league in the world, 73 years in the top division, four-times winners of the FA Cup — were such an unattractive proposition for overseas viewers that Liverpool should be able to carve off all their own rights and leave the underclass behind.

His master’s voice, Ayre will have been less surprised than anyone that Henry has now put his master plan down in writing. Liverpool, in particular, have been chipping away at the collective foundations of English football for years.

A pandemic, with the game at its most vulnerable, has provided the opportunity to launch a hostile takeover. That is bad enough but we have to endure the disingenuousness of Rick Parry claiming that the owners of Liverpool and Manchester United care for the pyramid.

There is one simple way to prove it — a rescue package without so many strings attached that it wraps the whole game in their red tape.

Henry’s background in American sport, and a land of closed leagues, is bound to inform his desire for a protected cartel but it is not just the stateside executives who want to enshrine the “big six” in perpetuity. A frequent complaint from Premier League chairmen and senior executives is the way that Ferran Soriano, the chief executive of Manchester City, makes clubs outside the “big six” feel like an inconvenience.

Playing Aston Villa or Crystal Palace is a chore when Soriano, with his grand vision, thinks City should be facing Barcelona and Real Madrid far more often. The point of the lower leagues for him is so that City can have a B-team.

For all the sweeteners being thrown at the EFL clubs, are these seriously the people who are going to be given unprecedented powers in English football? Allowed to change the game for ever?

Their agenda is clear; unequal distribution to increasingly favour the richest clubs; many more games in Europe; no pesky League Cup; games carved off from the main broadcast deal so the biggest can cash in around the world; more money-spinning pre-season tournaments. And those are only the changes they admit to, the thin end of the wedge. How many more steps to a Super League?

Of course none of this opposition is much comfort to those EFL clubs losing money. But given the wealth in the game — more than £1 billion spent by Premier League clubs in the transfer window just gone — is it any wonder that government despairs of football’s inability to muddle through the financial challenges of Covid-19 without tearing itself apart?

Perhaps Henry and Parry, the former Liverpool chief executive, have been smart enough to draw up a Plan B which has most of the good parts of the deal without the demands that would disfigure the game permanently. They have less than 48 hours to come up with an alternative before the top-flight clubs are due to gather.

It would be nice to think that Henry might be at that meeting, to look Leicester, Palace and the rest of the clubs he has treated with such disdain, in the eye — or does Parry have to do all his dirty work, the convenient fall guy?

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Oct 13 2020 04:50am
Yes, English football needs leaders – but not mercenary opportunists like Joel Glazer and John W Henry
Henry Winter
, Chief Football Writer
Monday October 12 2020, 5.00pm, The Times



Yes, Joel Glazer, I saw you. I saw your contempt for English fans. I was there outside the main entrance at JJB Stadium in Wigan on May 11, 2008. I was chatting to Manchester United supporters an hour and 20 minutes before kick-off, genuine football people whose life revolves around this great club you’re privileged to own, proper football souls who care for the greatest game as well as their beloved club. And you swept past, smiling smugly.

Yes, Joel, I saw you, you ambitious ruler of the English game. I saw your bouncers pushing United fans out of the way, your fans. I saw your look, your sense of self-entitlement. I saw how out of touch you were with English football, the passion, the flaws, the glory, and you still are. As now, I saw then that you don’t understand the responsibility of being guardian of Manchester United, the absolute honour, and the opportunity for leadership for club and sport. You’re not fit to spend a second in the distinguished company of Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Bobby Charlton, legends who have given so selflessly to club and sport.

We know your game, Joel. Your game is simple, fistfuls of dollars. Fair enough. Money’s your business, turning sport into business, into dollars. Sadly, you don’t have any emotional connection with United. Your game is the Bucs and the bucks.

But hear this: we don’t want Joel Glazer running English football. Fans, government, clubs don’t want the representative of a family who have taken almost £1 billion out of Manchester United deciding who is a fitting owner of another club, deciding how much other clubs should receive in broadcast money, restricting opportunity for those wanting to challenge him and his Gang of Six in this disgraceful, doomed “Project Big Picture”.



Welcome to English football: behind closed shops? No chance. We’ll fight the cabal. We don’t want Joel Glazer, or John W Henry at Liverpool, deciding that two places are to be cut permanently from the vibrant, competitive Premier League, that two places are to be cut permanently from the historic, passionately supported EFL?

Who are the leaders? Not you. “The fact that our two greatest clubs are showing leadership at a time when the game is crying out for it is fantastic,” Rick Parry, chairman of the EFL, told the Daily Telegraph. Parry’s right, the game is crying out for leadership, but not the type of commercial opportunism masked as altruism from Glazer and Henry.



Where have all the real footballing leaders gone? The men and women who thought of the interests of their sport first, themselves second? The people not seduced by the power, the inflating of their egos and, occasionally, bank balances? Where are those like David Dein and David Sheepshanks? Owners and administrators who cared.



Richard Scudamore kept the 20 Premier League owners in a line, which Richard Masters has failed to. Adam Crozier was a leader of the FA, too strong for the internal politics, but an undeniable leader. Ian Watmore walked away from the FA, exasperated by the agendas. English football is too riven with self-interest. Gordon Taylor at the PFA loves the game, genuinely, but fails to lead properly, sadly.

So a message to Glazer and Henry as you try to seize leadership of English football. Some humility, please, some respect for this great game, for this footballing country that nursed into life and codified this wonderful pastime that already provides you with such profits.



Please, some acknowledgment that fortunes, footballing and financial, fluctuate. Special status? How entitled you are. Know your history. Big six? Leicester and Leeds have won the title since Spurs have. Villa have won the European Cup more than City, Arsenal and Spurs. This is not to decry any of those magnificent clubs, simply to apply the big picture.



So, Joel and John, you don’t offer the leadership English football craves, the sense of financial probity and community. They do exist within football. I’d trust Mark and Nicola Palios at Tranmere Rovers and Steve Lansdown at Bristol City to lead the EFL better than Parry. Port Vale’s Carol Shanahan would represent and work better for the EFL than Parry; she cares for her club and community, and runs a hugely successful business.

I’d trust Matthew Benham at Brentford to do a better job with the maths than Parry, who is trying to sell football’s soul for £3.5 million a club. I’d trust Tony Bloom at Brighton to get the figures right without wronging anybody. I’d trust Clive Nates at Lincoln City, Andy Holt at Accrington Stanley and Simon Sadler at Blackpool to be more in tune with balance sheets and fans’ concerns than Parry.


I’d trust Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha, Leicester’s owner, and his principled chief executive, Susan Whelan, to run the Premier League with more savvy and empathy than Glazer and Henry. I’d trust Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens at Villa more than Glazer and Henry; they understand dreams, studious investment, striving to challenge the elite, pushing against the door that Glazer and Henry want to close.



I’d trust Andrea Radrizzani at Leeds to do a better job on broadcast rights than Glazer and Henry, sharing the riches around, appreciating the importance of competition. I’d trust Steve Parish at Crystal Palace to do the right thing when it counted, to think of the greater good.



I’d trust Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones as proper stewards of the national game than Parry. They’re not into Norwich City for the possibility of profit; just the opposite, it has cost them. And how the EFL misses a smart mind and big heart like Dean Hoyle, who has stood down at Huddersfield Town. Now there’s a man with a moral compass. His sons worked in the club shop, he broke down with emotion when his beloved Town were promoted at Wembley, and was so concerned about local childhood poverty that he established breakfast clubs to feed the needy.



So Parry is right: English football does need a reset, but not dictated by those whose start, middle and end is the bottom line. Not Glazer and Henry. English football needs leaders who care for all, but also possess the financial expertise to make the sport a viable business. For years, it has been tottering towards the “cliff-edge” as Parry calls it, and is now teetering.

Proper leaders, those with a real big picture, would have reined in the ludicrous wages, making them more performance-related. Proper leaders would have confronted the unconscionable, extravagant, multi-layered system of paying agents.

This is not a plea to retreat down memory lane, finding sanctuary in the iron-fist Fifties leadership of Alan Hardaker, the Football League secretary who protected convoys on brave Royal Navy duty during the War, who played for Hull, who fought for his sport. It is about tapping into the intellectual property that exists in football, in the minds of Shanahan, Whelan, and the cerebral Palios couple, and working as a collective to sort English football’s myriad ills, to bring the real leadership, not the greed of a Joel Glazer. We know what you’re doing, Joel.



Time to refill seats

It seems partly hypocritical, partly hysterical, that even in the mad world of 2020 it is possible for the wonderful Arsène Wenger to address an audience in the West End of London last night yet all the hard-core Arsenal fans socially distanced are unable to take up the seats they have paid so handsomely for in his old home, three miles to the north.

Live events? Palladium yes, Emirates no. What’s the difference?



Apart from the fact that Arsenal’s abode is outdoor — healthier — and so well organised, as anybody who has been there behind closed doors will attest. Even the urinals are now spaced apart.

Somebody in government is taking the proverbial. Let Fans In.

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Oct 13 2020 04:51am
Couple of banging articles from the Times.

I’d trust Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha, Leicester’s owner, and his principled chief executive, Susan Whelan, to run the Premier League with more savvy and empathy than Glazer and Henry

And too right.
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Oct 13 2020 05:43am
The first article is a shameless clickbait, he's trying to build an entire narrative around a little throwaway quote.

You're Leicester fan so correct me if I'm wrong, you won the league not through massive outside investments by rich owners but due to range of several factors - underperformance of collective top 6, grit and determination of the players who also stepped up to couple of levels of what was expected of them, shrewd movements in the transfer market and just all around feel good factor around the club - none of which are in any way quantifiable therefore impossible to predict and prevent by whatever big bad top 6 tried to do.
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Oct 13 2020 05:55am
Quote (Pozer @ Oct 13 2020 12:43pm)
The first article is a shameless clickbait, he's trying to build an entire narrative around a little throwaway quote.

You're Leicester fan so correct me if I'm wrong, you won the league not through massive outside investments by rich owners but due to range of several factors - underperformance of collective top 6, grit and determination of the players who also stepped up to couple of levels of what was expected of them, shrewd movements in the transfer market and just all around feel good factor around the club - none of which are in any way quantifiable therefore impossible to predict and prevent by whatever big bad top 6 tried to do.


You're right, and one lucky year where the stars aligned doesn't wreck the boat. However, last season we crashed the top 6 party again, wolves are at a point where they are a genuine threat to the big 6, Everton (whilst included in their big boys club) are looking to get into contention now. It's not about what was, it's about where the premier league is going.

You've seen yourself over the last couple of years that buying players from these lesser clubs is no longer as easy as it was. Every Premier league club now has enough money to dictate just how much they'll sell a player for, usually a hell of a lot more than the equivalent from a foreign team. Whilst it won't make a massive difference in the short term, it certainly will longer term. See Chelsea this season, spent more money in the summer than most teams will spend in 2 or 3 years, but it no longer guarantees smashing every game like it used to.

In ten years who knows how the premier league will shape up. That's what makes it exciting. But throwing power into the hands of the few will ruin it, because they will do everything possible to make sure the monetary divide stays.
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Oct 13 2020 06:41am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ Oct 13 2020 12:55pm)
You're right, and one lucky year where the stars aligned doesn't wreck the boat. However, last season we crashed the top 6 party again, wolves are at a point where they are a genuine threat to the big 6, Everton (whilst included in their big boys club) are looking to get into contention now. It's not about what was, it's about where the premier league is going.

You've seen yourself over the last couple of years that buying players from these lesser clubs is no longer as easy as it was. Every Premier league club now has enough money to dictate just how much they'll sell a player for, usually a hell of a lot more than the equivalent from a foreign team. Whilst it won't make a massive difference in the short term, it certainly will longer term. See Chelsea this season, spent more money in the summer than most teams will spend in 2 or 3 years, but it no longer guarantees smashing every game like it used to.

In ten years who knows how the premier league will shape up. That's what makes it exciting. But throwing power into the hands of the few will ruin it, because they will do everything possible to make sure the monetary divide stays.
I agree and it does seem like the general consensus is so far top 6 holding the power is no go, none of the proposed changes affect other clubs trying to crash the top 6 party negatively.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54516180
EFL clubs are all in for it though so vote against the proposal and you've killed lower league football.
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