Quote (Loiter @ 11 Jun 2023 11:18)

could say the same for pep, in regards to basic players doing amazing things.
the only world class player pep has ever signed at city is haaland, before that, most of the players id never heard of.. laporte, ruben dias, gundogan, bernardo silva, alvarez, and probably some more. id never heard of those players personally before he signed them.
he signs normal players, and fits them into his style of coaching.

Quote (fender @ Jun 11 2023 02:58pm)

lots of facepalms in there:

- while it's true that money alone does not GUARANTEE success, it sure makes it much easier and more likely. no one suggested pep is a bad coach, people just pointed out that as a manager he always had teams that were full of talent / money already, while other coaches have built successful teams under significantly more difficult circumstances.

- playing players out of position was not invented by guardiola, lol. to suggest the taa situation is klopp just copying what pep did with stones is absurd. both managers, and more importantly, many managers before them, have done that - famous examples include the likes of beckenbauer or matthäus for example, but there are quite literally hundreds.
i am not saying pep himself is just blindly "copying" others, but neither are other managers (except löw). it has to fit the player's skillset and tactical understanding, it's not a magic spell to improve your team.
guardiola is a creative coach with a strong conviction of what football should look like, and he always had the talent and means to make that work, but that philosophy has its own limitations. he definitely influences other managers, but he himself is also inspired by what others found success with - like every good manager.

- just because YOU personally didn't know any of those players, doesn't mean they were cheap no-names that no one knew. i guarantee you that every actual football fan heard of their names when they were signed, and more importantly, all of them had competing offers from other big clubs.
i'm not trying to shame you here, maybe you're still very young and / or only started watching football lately, but to suggest that haaland was the only superstar pep signed at city is outright absurd...

Quote (Loiter @ 11 Jun 2023 17:49)

you tell me ANY other player pep signed at city that was world class?
none of them were, except haaland.
unless your definition of world class is just someone who is ''a good player''

pretty sure klopp never ever played a defender in midfield consistently as he did towards the end of last season, before watching pep do it with stones.. so dont come here with your facepalm bullshit

Quote (fender @ Jun 11 2023 06:17pm)

you're not just clueless, you're delusional. pep joined a team that had just signed kdb, a player the whole world (justifiably) was after, as well as sterling and prime otamendi. they already had kompany, yaya touré, david silva, nasri, and fucking agüero. the team was stacked af.

when it comes to HIS signings: only a fool would deny that the likes of dias, rodri, ederson, and laporte for example were world class on their respective positions when city signed them - and their transfer fees clearly support that. then you look at the likes of grealish, mahrez, cancelo, stones, bernardo silva, gabriel jesus, gündogan, and you still have players that had offers from multiple big clubs, and were anything but cheap, hidden talents that only experts knew of.
i don't blame you for not being familiar with the portuguese, german, and italian leagues for example, but don't try to sell your lack of knowledge as pep's genius, lol. someone who only knows messi, cronaldo, mbappé (not sure if you heard of that one though, true gem from a minor league) and haaland might think only offensive players can be worldclass, but that's far from true of course.

when it comes to player positions: klopp has been playing people out of position for longer than guardiola is even a manager. he has done so back when he coached my favourite club, mainz 05. and he obviously did not invent that either, i've already named you some famous examples from generations before that. your silly claim that he just copied the stones situation (which doesn't even begin to make sense in the first place, since stones is a centre back, and taa is a fullback), is just preposterous...

Quote (Loiter @ 11 Jun 2023 20:33)

ye, de bruyne silva, kompany, did pep sign those? NO, you fucking dickhead, learn to read what im saying

Quote (excellence @ Jun 12 2023 02:05am)

did that guy suggest klopp “copied pep” by putting a defender in midfield?

hey phil jones played in midfield couple times in 2012/2013 - guess they both copied Sir Alex! :rofl:

also the suggestion that laporte/dias/gundogan/silva etc. were “nobodies” lmao

ex-barca pelado oil guzzling bandwagoners who spawned in 2008 like man citeh really are a funny bunch

Quote (Loiter @ 11 Jun 2023 21:14)

difference is, fergie played jones in midfield fully. whilst having a back 4.
pep utilised stones as a floating defender come central midfielder and it worked a treat.
that move alone is what won city the treble. it allowed them to have 2 holding midfielders and have an extra man further forward (gundogan) gundogan previously played alongside rodri.
and then stones would sit back into defence when needed, allowing gundogan to sit back in next to rodri. genius

Quote (excellence @ Jun 12 2023 05:24am)

so pep did not “create defender in midfield” as you claimed. ty for admit