reacting to a 2 month old post? still studying?

There are 2 ways Chaos orbs come into existence: first is that they can drop like any other droppable item, created by RNG. Second is by using a vendorrecipe, you collect a full set of gear, all rare quality and between itemlevel 60 and 74. sell that to a vendor and u get a chaos orb in return.

Edit: This thread might as well be called a long time relevant item by now ^^

This post was edited by PYF_Secret on Oct 19 2019 01:20am

Isn't that study kinda pointless?

I'm not an economics major, but common sense would dictate that in a game where currency can be "created" by vendor recipes or finding it while the amount of things to buy with it is finite i.e. reaching lvl 100 on all ascendancies with BiS items in all slots, inflation will always be the outcome the more players are engaged and the more time passes.

It's roughly like "normal" people being able to print money in real life but not being able to purchase anything meaningful with it after a certain point.

One could argue that the grind to get the currency would equal work in real life, but with bots being avaible you would have to measure electric power prices, pc building prices & set up time for the bots to get a more clear picture and in that scenario it would be like people setting up a working money printer at home, which would also come down to to set up time, printer cost & the electric bill.

I mean yes there are "currency sinks" because you can use it for crafting, which would equal destroying real life money, but the baseline currency chaos is not commonly used for that in the late game (yes I know rolling maps but in standard people reach their desired level at some point plus you can use alch+scour).

So you would first need to establish a relative model which decides between currency which is widely used as a form of money i.e. chaos and currency which can be used as money but also has a real use in crafting i.e. exalted orbs, mirros, eternal orbs, meaning a secondary use as a resource.

The real life equivalent would be things like gold which has both properties (with the important difference that in real life resources are not infinite i.e. more gold can be mined but the theoretical amout of gold on the planet is not limitless. Also certain resources might be reuseable, i.e. melting a gold product and using the raw material for storage as a gold bar or to produce something else, while poe currency which can be used to produce things is never reuseable.)

All that aside studying poe economy would require in depth knowledge of the game and it's versions.

Eternal orbs i.e. are now legacy.

Divination Cards influence the market.

Crafting methods change i.e. fossils, essences.

The list of things to factor is long and complicated.

I would strongly disadvice such an attempt, if you value your time and sanity.

This post was edited by Schala on Oct 19 2019 01:59am

is that the only currency item that attained through selling gear to vendors?

it sounds like chaos orbs are an inflationary currency while other things like exalted perform as a store of value.

You might be right about needing in depth first hand knowledge. But is it possible to extract an over arching model? Does GGG directly control PoE's economy like in most MMO's? Or were they successful in setting up a system that self regulate.

I am trying to build a thesis for valuing cryptocurrencies. My thesis is that in order for a crypto to be successful, there has to be a commodity use case for it. I am looking into games where the currency hyper inflated and seeing what was used for money instead and why. For example in Diablo 2 Soj's, 40/15 jewels and runes were used. Shards were used in Asherons Call.

PoE developers saw what happened in D2 and decided to use an in game item for the currency. As far as I know, this is the only game that did this on purpose.

I have one major inconsistency which is that SOJ's had no real commodity use case. The only way I can explain this away is to say that SOJ's were the only plausible option at the time. 40/15's were too rare to use as currency. Once Runes came out, they replaced SOJ's because they could actually be used to craft items.

If the commodity factor holds true, then maybe it provides a floor on prices. Because if there is an increase in supply then the commodity will be used to make items if they value the items more than the commodity. This lowers the supply back down. If the commodity is too scarce then people hoard it until the supply has increased enough to make it economical to craft with it again. Its an equalizing mechanism based on supply/demand and it doesn't take any top down economic planning. Its works autonomously without developers having to create artificial supply sinks.

yup one of the large factors in the decrease of value of chaos is that they are no longer necessary for crafting items. chaos spamming literally used to be the only way to craft godly end game items, but with more specialized crafting methods being introduced as the game progresses (ie fossils, essences, annulments, beasts etc) the use of chaos has drastically dropped. They have more or less become useless for crafting and are purely an item to be exchanged at this point, much more like a SOJ in d2.

I am properly surprised to see this kind of discussion here.
Was a good read, thanks guys

underrated comment. since we are speaking standard league, this is by far the best item ingame and will never lose its high value it has today

The thing you need to remember with early d2 is that gold was not even bad as a currency because gambling rare items is actually pretty powerful in the game and everyone needs gold to repair items.

The Problem was that there was and still is a maximum amount of gold which your chest and character can store and that characters drop the gold they hold on death.
Also gold could not be traded safely over the trade window in d2, you had to drop it on the ground. That's why it failed as a currency.

Why the soj was used is largely connected to 2 reasons:

1) It was universally useful for all chars, because everyone likes +1 skills & the huge mana buff, so I would call them a "commodity". They were close to best in slot on any character which needed +1 skills to scale their damage and made mana management a lot less stressful on all chars.

2) and this is the more important reason, sojs where rare and a 1 SLOT item, d2 always required one to create a lot of mules, if you wanted to trade at a certain level because the combined chest + character inventory space is very limited, so using anything as currency that occupies more than 1 slot was out of the question



Do you mean over arching as in an autoregression (AR) kind of model or in a general sense of bigger picture model?

Afaik GGG does not control PoE's economy in standard. They passively influence it with changes to the game though which is why knowledge about legacy items which still exist in standard is key.

One of the biggest changes to currency farming was removing many ways of getting "increased item quantity" (iiq) which directly translates to more currency drops. But in standard such things still exist i.e. (from my stash):






Also as mentioned div cards get introduced to the game all the time and some give currency.

Plus changed crafting metas due to new crafting methods.

But all that aside GGG does afaik not actively reduce drop rates of a certain currency type or all currencies to regulate the market, so in a way they found a self regulating system which does not drift off into hyperinflation completely which is quite an achievement. Even chaos orbs retain some value because you can still use them to just spam an item and gamble on a good result, even though deterministic crafting is obviously prefered by most.



I believe that is the case in PoE and was also how the idea for the currency system ingame was conceived.

One thing to keep in mind though is that in PoE there is a sort of "hard cap" on how much a crafted item can be worth because of the Mirror of Kalandra, which allows one to make a copy of an existing item. Usually the cost is said mirror + a fee for the item owner.

This imho is a smart way to prevent deflation and said "hoarding of commodities" in this case crafting currency. Because even if you could create a total scarcity of crafting resources you could never drive up item values over a certain point.



I wish you all the best for the work on your thesis.

I'm not too familier with cryptocurrency but I think one of the main "commodity uses" of it is that is bypasses financial supervision and regulation as well as the anonymity it provides.

There is no institution which can mess with it's value via interest manipulations and it is very hard to track even for intelligence agencies leave alone normal police or federals.

edit:

Thinking about it while doing the dishes one more point:

Cryptocurrency has a monopoly on certain purchases meaning, on the darknet certain things can only be paid for with cryptocurrency. That to some people is an inherent commodity in and of itself.

This post was edited by Schala on Oct 21 2019 03:57am

I have one, perfect as well

I leave it unpriced in my tab just to see people lowball me with their mirror gear

lul

attack/pen relic version?