Quote (Koston @ Apr 22 2022 09:28pm)

As far as I know (and admittedly I know little about werebears), their IAS mechanics got nerfed to all hell. They can't reach decent frames now no matter what you do.

Quote (iorin @ Apr 22 2022 12:31pm)

True

Bear sorc with griswold weapon gave 5 attacks/sec, it was the fastest possible option

Now, this calculator says it's 2,77 attacks/sec...

Quote (Koston @ Apr 22 2022 04:11pm)

Yeah. And, like I said, not sure if that calculator is 100% accurate, but it is supposed to be very close to accurate. It does match what we know about werebears in terms of their IAS being nerfed. This was actually purposefully done by Blizzard. They wanted the werebear to become a very slow but very hard-hitting build. So, now it's uninterruptible and stuff, but you cannot hit fast enough to proc certain things to be viable anymore. Blizzard does not seem to understand that IAS is one of the most important things to wereform builds to stay alive. If you're not hitting fast enough, you die. The developers won't acknowledge that, so this is what happens (and also stuff like the massive nerf to wolf IAS that they were introducing as a huge "buff" in the PTR patch recently).

Quote (GUN1GRAVE @ Apr 22 2022 01:23pm)

see im not sure if HC going bear or wolf is better to survive with minimal gear. i was thinking bear. i don't the devs will ever patch in a new bear exclusive skill so they probably have to give fireclaw some bear ability or maul another upgrade. built in CB for those 2 skills bear only? dunno.

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Perhaps this is a better explanation: Wereform paw attacks are NOT borrowing the frame data from the human form animations. Rather a slowing factor is being applied to the traditional wereform animations so that the overall duration comes out the same as the human animation. (Though some breakpoints may be 1 EIAS off due to rounding issues.)

So all of the werewolf paw attacks use the traditional actionframe = 7, framesperdirection =13, animationspeed = 256. And there werebear paw attacks use actionframe = 7, framesperdirection =12, animationspeed = 224. Use those, not the human form values. Now, after we get to the step where we compute increment = TruncateToInt((animationspeed * cappedeias)/100) we now have an extra step were we apply the slowing factor: increment = TruncateToInt(increment * wereformnerffactor). And what's wereformnerffactor? It's (wereformframesperdirection * humananimationspeed)/(humanframesperdirection * wereformanimationspeed).

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(To account for werebear and sorcs and amazons and claws, it's probably really more like (wereform_framesperdirection * human_animationrate)/((human_framesperdirection - human_startframes) * wereform_animationrate), but let's get werewolf solved first.)

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New update. I went with Truncate((Truncate((256*werewolf_framesperdirection)/human_framesperdirection)*(EIASplus100))/100) in this version since that matches more of the troublesome breakpoints than any other option right now.

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There is only one thing I can think of. It's ugly. I hate it. It's so unnecessarily complex I don't see how a programmer could plausibly write it. And it has some really, really bad implications for how it would complicate gear selection. But it matches the data points, and it's all I've got:
If we pull apart the terms composing EIAS, one of them is negative for the first data point (the "minus WSM" term). So we do TruncateToInt((animation_speed * EIAS_component * werewolf_framesperdirection)/(100 * human_framesperdirection)) and then repeat for each component of EIAS, and then sum them. If we assume truncation means "round towards zero" (see the comments in math.js about this), then one of the truncates is a ceiling() for the first data point but a floor() for the second data point. Aha! Different rules!

Tentatively, I broke EIAS into minusWSM, skill_and_gear_EIAS, and constant100 and ran the three problem breakpoints on a pocket calculator. They each came out correctly. I'll need to refactor the javascript calculator to try handling EIAS in this crazy way so we can see if it messes up any of the other tested breakpoints. The division of the positive terms into skill_and_gear_EIAS and constant100 was an arbitrary guess on my part. Figuring out which division of the positive terms (if any of them!) is correct will be a pain.

(Again, I really, really don't like this idea; I just don't have a better one.)

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EIAS = skill_IAS + DiminishingReturns(gear_IAS) - WSM
base = animationspeed
delta = TruncateToInt((animationspeed * EIAS)/100)
increment = base + delta
increment = TruncateToInt(increment * nerf_factor)

Quote (iorin @ Apr 22 2022 09:31pm)

True

Bear sorc with griswold weapon gave 5 attacks/sec, it was the fastest possible option

Now, this calculator says it's 2,77 attacks/sec...

Quote (HalfDollarBill @ Jul 25 2022 06:07pm)

Hi Gel,

Is the consensus/conclusion of this thread that this calculator (linked below) is accurate?

https://chthonvii.github.io/d2r_24ptr2_wereform_calculator/

Quote (tugofpeace @ Jul 25 2022 06:15pm)

The numbers on that calculator seem to agree with this one as well:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dJNjAE4PI6-Fzaguv9R7ErXNI572LLA9znDPSYRoqsU/edit#gid=1417766750

I'm looking at berzerker axe with 40% weapon ias and 4 frame and 3 frame speed requirements on gear of 59% and 117% ias, respectively


Big question I'm debating is whether to forego 150%ED from fortitude so I can use a 150ED/60IAS 100 life armor to reach the 3 frame breakpoint.

I plugged in all the gear/charms/stats on D2 planner but it seems like their IAS calculator hasn't been updated, as regardless of whether I use 59% ias or 117% ias it still shows the same attack speed.. so DPS is barely changed.