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Nov 26 2023 09:51am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Nov 26 2023 03:43pm)
Can't believe there are still people here to defend Putin the great assassin/war criminal restoring ugly russian empire while wanting peace ? The meat wave master ?

It's just impossible to defend this guy, don't even try.


There is ample evidence if you want to read it that highlight in detail that Russia wanted peace and Nato (read: USA and UK) did not want peace. by all means call Putin a war criminal but you can no longer say with a straight face that he did not want peace, as this is no longer borne out based on the evidence.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 26 2023 09:51am
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Nov 26 2023 09:53am
Quote (ferdia @ 26 Nov 2023 16:51)
There is ample evidence if you want to read it that highlight in detail that Russia wanted peace and Nato (read: USA and UK) did not want peace. by all means call Putin a war criminal but you can no longer say with a straight face that he did not want peace.


Peace the time to developp new markets, to finish the war crime drones factory to be able to freeze to death many ukrainians in winter 2025 ?

IMPOSSIBLE.
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Nov 26 2023 10:03am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Nov 26 2023 03:53pm)
Peace the time to developp new markets, to finish the war crime drones factory to be able to freeze to death many ukrainians in winter 2025 ?

IMPOSSIBLE.


This makes no sense. Ukraine needs a peace deal more then Russia does. Ukraine had 7 years to prepare for this war, which, may I remind you, they did. There is ample historic evidence to support that build up. Russia is big, and yes it is now moving to a war footing, and upgrading both its conventional and nuclear capabilities, and again all these details have already been posted. Russia has a larger pool of people to draw from. Ukraine, if it wants to resist Russia, needs time, and it is not getting any time.

So if you say its impossible for Ukraine to look for peace, my response is: its impossible for Ukraine not to look for peace because at some point the alternative is more land gobbled up. The cold reality is that Ukraine is losing this war. Do you agree? What they are doing is not sustainable. Something will give.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 26 2023 10:03am
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Nov 26 2023 10:28am
Quote (ferdia @ 26 Nov 2023 17:03)
This makes no sense. Ukraine needs a peace deal more then Russia does. Ukraine had 7 years to prepare for this war, which, may I remind you, they did. There is ample historic evidence to support that build up. Russia is big, and yes it is now moving to a war footing, and upgrading both its conventional and nuclear capabilities, and again all these details have already been posted. Russia has a larger pool of people to draw from. Ukraine, if it wants to resist Russia, needs time, and it is not getting any time.

So if you say its impossible for Ukraine to look for peace, my response is: its impossible for Ukraine not to look for peace because at some point the alternative is more land gobbled up. The cold reality is that Ukraine is losing this war. Do you agree? What they are doing is not sustainable. Something will give.


Staline, Holomodor, grain stealing, drones on grain storage, on electric grid, war crimes, assassinations, complete annihilation of protests against the regime in Russia itself, etc etc

There's NOTHING TO ALARM YOU ?


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Nov 26 2023 10:40am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Nov 26 2023 04:28pm)
Staline, Holomodor, grain stealing, drones on grain storage, on electric grid, war crimes, assassinations, complete annihilation of protests against the regime in Russia itself, etc etc

There's NOTHING TO ALARM YOU ?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKH34TtXMAgkHF2.jpg


What alarms me is what we have already outlined repeatedly:

1. Ukraine's Military spending comprises almost 35% of GDP - that puts an incredible strain on Ukraine combined with Borrowing 170billion+ without the means to pay it back. Yes Russia is also increasing its military spending (by, ALOT) but it has more resources to do this.
3. Inability to achieve stated goals of liberating / claiming Eastern Ukraine and Crimea and at the same time seeking any victory inevitably will lead to escalation. Yes Russia has not taken over all of Ukraine and Invaded Poland yet, but there is no evidence to support this was its goal.
4. Being dictated by allies on when the war will end, carrying out a counter offensives against fortified positions, all the while a massive drop in population over 2 years. Russia has stated its goals and right now they are simply more achievable then Ukraine's goals.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 26 2023 10:40am
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Nov 26 2023 10:54am
Quote (ferdia @ 26 Nov 2023 17:40)
What alarms me is what we have already outlined repeatedly:

1. Ukraine's Military spending comprises almost 35% of GDP - that puts an incredible strain on Ukraine combined with Borrowing 170billion+ without the means to pay it back. Yes Russia is also increasing its military spending (by, ALOT) but it has more resources to do this.
3. Inability to achieve stated goals of liberating / claiming Eastern Ukraine and Crimea and at the same time seeking any victory inevitably will lead to escalation. Yes Russia has not taken over all of Ukraine and Invaded Poland yet, but there is no evidence to support this was its goal.
4. Being dictated by allies on when the war will end, carrying out a counter offensives against fortified positions, all the while a massive drop in population over 2 years. Russia has stated its goals and right now they are simply more achievable then Ukraine's goals.


==> I posted this few days ago:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=654429005
Quote (Meanwhile @ 21 Nov 2023 13:44)
An openly revisionist regime fundamentally hostile to the West
“There have been times in the history of our country when it had to step back, but only to move forward after gathering its forces,” Vladimir Putin said on 2022 June 9. During an exchange with young entrepreneurs, organized on the occasion of the 350th anniversary of the birth of Peter the Great, the Russian President estimated that Russia was facing the same challenges. Since that time "almost nothing has changed", he said, explaining that "Peter the Great led the Northern War for 21 years. One might have the impression that by fighting Sweden, he had torn something. He did not tear anything but restored [...]. Obviously, it is also up to us to restore and strengthen". When Peter the Great founded Saint Petersburg, Vladimir Putin continued, "no European state recognized this territory as Russian, all considered it Swedish." These remarks by the Russian President are part of a series of revisionist statements. After annexing Crimea in 2014, he publicly questioned the borders of Ukraine and other states of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS). In June 2020, he suggested that the successor states of the Soviet Union had to return the “territorial gifts received from the Russian people” when they joined the USSR. On February 21, he accused the Ukrainian leaders of having "pocketed territories received not only during the Soviet era but also from the Russian Empire."


2. Do you want to cancel assistance to Ukraine so Putin will end up in assassinating its governement next year ?
4. Are you realizing that, as a warlord, Putin will never give up what he started, any sign of weakness is death for him ?
6. Do you want to let these criminals to get free without even paying back the war damage ?

Stop believing the lies from those leeches.
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Nov 26 2023 12:11pm
Quote (ferdia @ 26 Nov 2023 17:40)
What alarms me is what we have already outlined repeatedly:

1. Ukraine's Military spending comprises almost 35% of GDP - that puts an incredible strain on Ukraine combined with Borrowing 170billion+ without the means to pay it back. Yes Russia is also increasing its military spending (by, ALOT) but it has more resources to do this.
3. Inability to achieve stated goals of liberating / claiming Eastern Ukraine and Crimea and at the same time seeking any victory inevitably will lead to escalation. Yes Russia has not taken over all of Ukraine and Invaded Poland yet, but there is no evidence to support this was its goal.
4. Being dictated by allies on when the war will end, carrying out a counter offensives against fortified positions, all the while a massive drop in population over 2 years. Russia has stated its goals and right now they are simply more achievable then Ukraine's goals.


Where did 2) go?

Russia's aggression towards Ukraine is unacceptable, but Western countries, in my opinion, have chosen the wrong way to resolve this conflict. This conflict should have been “localized” and “isolated” from the very beginning, and not “globalized”, as it eventually happened.

The strategy now is that EU/US finances this and Ukrainians fight and die while China, India, BRICS profit on the sidelines. It is doubtful that the Ukrainians will win on the battlefield. I think the eventual solution to this doesn’t involve the front lines. The Russians will not change course - too much is at stake. There will be no big political changes in Moscow even if Putin is removed or dies. This is the reality.
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Nov 26 2023 12:53pm
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 26 2023 01:11pm)
Where did 2) go?

Russia's aggression towards Ukraine is unacceptable, but Western countries, in my opinion, have chosen the wrong way to resolve this conflict. This conflict should have been “localized” and “isolated” from the very beginning, and not “globalized”, as it eventually happened.

The strategy now is that EU/US finances this and Ukrainians fight and die while China, India, BRICS profit on the sidelines. It is doubtful that the Ukrainians will win on the battlefield. I think the eventual solution to this doesn’t involve the front lines. The Russians will not change course - too much is at stake. There will be no big political changes in Moscow even if Putin is removed or dies. This is the reality.


This is a very good point, I like your framing. This could have played out very similarly to Transnistria Moldova in 1991 obviously on a bigger scale though. The flame of the conflict naturally dies out because there isn’t huge sponsors basically telling the weaker side to go to war because we have your back. Ukraine accepts NATO neutrality, gives some autonomy to pro Russian east and instead of having millions of refugees streaming out of Ukraine and probably 300+k dead between both sides you end up with a much smaller death count and localized conflict, not one where 100+bn usd is funneled in to keep the fighting going annually

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Nov 26 2023 12:54pm
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Nov 27 2023 11:18am
Quote (ferdia @ 26 Nov 2023 17:40)
What alarms me is what we have already outlined repeatedly:

1. Ukraine's Military spending comprises almost 35% of GDP - that puts an incredible strain on Ukraine combined with Borrowing 170billion+ without the means to pay it back. Yes Russia is also increasing its military spending (by, ALOT) but it has more resources to do this.
3. Inability to achieve stated goals of liberating / claiming Eastern Ukraine and Crimea and at the same time seeking any victory inevitably will lead to escalation. Yes Russia has not taken over all of Ukraine [...] yet, but there is no evidence to support this was its goal...

... except for Russia attempting a full-scale invasion of Ukraine at the start of this war. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
They only toned down their goals after the initial "decapitation strike" on Kyiv failed and they realized that they couldn't hold Northern Ukraine either.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 27 2023 11:24am
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Nov 27 2023 11:52am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 27 2023 12:18pm)
... except for Russia attempting a full-scale invasion of Ukraine at the start of this war. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
They only toned down their goals after the initial "decapitation strike" on Kyiv failed and they realized that they couldn't hold Northern Ukraine either.


A full scale invasion doesn't happen with 200k troops in a country of 40+million at the time. That's not even enough to storm Kiev. It was very clearly a feint, more of a scare tactic.

A good example of what a full scale invasion may look like of similar sized country is in 1939 Germany invaded Poland with 1.5 million men which at the time was a country of like 35 million people.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Nov 27 2023 11:59am
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