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Nov 19 2023 09:42am
This is only for equipment, you can add the post above on the top of that

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Nov 19 2023 09:45am
Quote (Norlander @ Nov 19 2023 03:23pm)
When a country is lead by a comedian be sure that your counteroffensive is a comedy. And you are a stunt man.


feels bad i guess :<
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Nov 19 2023 09:48am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 19 Nov 2023 18:45)
feels bad i guess :<


As bad as the counteroffensive goes. I don't want the country to be leveled by Putin, nor do I want it to be run by a clown drug addict.
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Nov 19 2023 09:53am
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 19 2023 09:27am)
I'm asking you very simple questions.

According to you attackers typically lose 3:1.

According to you Russians were losing 10k a month defending an extremely fortified area while having air and ar tillers superiority. We know that Ukraine wasn't able to breach the 1st line of defense.

According to your own logic that would mean that Ukranians are losing 3:1 = 30K Ukranian losses per month for how many months of the counteroffensive? Could you guide me through how do you get to 70k total losses?


It's not that attackers lose 3:1, it's that attackers typically require 3:1 numerical advantages to successfully attack entrenched defenses.

I think it's not unreasonable to guess that the overall casualties are probably not higher than 1.5:1 in Russia's favor, but possibly even tilted in Ukraine's favor. Ukraine can't keep this up, long term, regardless of how well supplied they are by the West. Doesn't mean they should surrender though. Their best hope is to fight for a viable political solution, and that's probably achieved by severing the land bridge to Crimea.
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Nov 19 2023 09:57am
Quote (Norlander @ Nov 19 2023 03:48pm)
As bad as the counteroffensive goes. I don't want the country to be leveled by Putin, nor do I want it to be run by a clown drug addict.


You only get to decide if you control Kiev. Hostomel :<

You only decide what seasons you want on your meat :lol:

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Nov 19 2023 09:58am
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Nov 19 2023 10:12am
Quote (Santara @ 19 Nov 2023 16:53)
It's not that attackers lose 3:1, it's that attackers typically require 3:1 numerical advantages to successfully attack entrenched defenses.

I think it's not unreasonable to guess that the overall casualties are probably not higher than 1.5:1 in Russia's favor, but possibly even tilted in Ukraine's favor. Ukraine can't keep this up, long term, regardless of how well supplied they are by the West. Doesn't mean they should surrender though. Their best hope is to fight for a viable political solution, and that's probably achieved by severing the land bridge to Crimea.


Even including civilians from Mariupol it's seems very, very, wrong to me to think that Russia has less, equal or -even- 1.5:1 more loss than Ukraine
Arguments posted here:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=654348166
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=654353091
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Nov 19 2023 10:12am
Quote (Santara @ 19 Nov 2023 18:53)
It's not that attackers lose 3:1, it's that attackers typically require 3:1 numerical advantages to successfully attack entrenched defenses.

I think it's not unreasonable to guess that the overall casualties are probably not higher than 1.5:1 in Russia's favor, but possibly even tilted in Ukraine's favor. Ukraine can't keep this up, long term, regardless of how well supplied they are by the West. Doesn't mean they should surrender though. Their best hope is to fight for a viable political solution, and that's probably achieved by severing the land bridge to Crimea.


Exactly this
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Nov 19 2023 10:43am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Nov 19 2023 10:12am)
Even including civilians from Mariupol it's seems very, very, wrong to me to think that Russia has less, equal or -even- 1.5:1 more loss than Ukraine
Arguments posted here:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=654348166
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=654353091


Russia's great strength through the early and mid part of the war thus far has been artillery. So even if Ukraine is torching large numbers of tanks and APCs with NLAWs and Javelins, they're still being pummeled in their trenches by artillery. Yes, Russia has been throwing meat waves into machine gun and artillery fire, which is the main argument in favor of a slight advantage in Ukraine's favor over the casualty toll, but still, the artillery takes a heavy toll. Now, Ukraine is working hard to defeat Russia's artillery advantage, and it appears to be working, but a lot of damage has already been done. Russia can field 5 times as many new recruits as Ukraine can. Attrition is key here.
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Nov 19 2023 10:48am
Quote (Santara @ 19 Nov 2023 17:43)
Russia's great strength through the early and mid part of the war thus far has been artillery. So even if Ukraine is torching large numbers of tanks and APCs with NLAWs and Javelins, they're still being pummeled in their trenches by artillery. Yes, Russia has been throwing meat waves into machine gun and artillery fire, which is the main argument in favor of a slight advantage in Ukraine's favor over the casualty toll, but still, the artillery takes a heavy toll. Now, Ukraine is working hard to defeat Russia's artillery advantage, and it appears to be working, but a lot of damage has already been done. Russia can field 5 times as many new recruits as Ukraine can. Attrition is key here.

No way, this is NOT the same soldiers, training, motivation, structural organization, artillery capability/efficacity per unit...

Oh...

Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFV)

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Nov 19 2023 10:57am
Quote (Meanwhile @ 19 Nov 2023 19:48)
No way, this is NOT the same soldiers, training, motivation, structural organization, artillery capability/efficacity per unit...

Oh...

Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFV)

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/leedrake5/Russia-Ukraine/master/Plots/current_ifv.jpg


The main problem is that both armies use the same Soviet armored vehicles. And when your visible evidence is some fresh painted Z at the rusty burnt BTR then something fundamentally is wrong.

This post was edited by Norlander on Nov 19 2023 10:57am
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