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Mar 2 2023 07:28am
if hed comment every strike the US doin while bringing democracy to muslim countries he would understand, that russia isnt a rarity when it comes to such pictures..

show us some pictures of afghan wedding crushed by US idiots? no?

alright. i guess this guy dont even know what HIS government doing
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Mar 2 2023 07:31am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Feb 28 2023 01:45pm)
this in an impossible question to answer, up there with please provide what percent of global warming is due to human activity within a 95% confidence interval.

I mean like half of us in this thread that are labeled pro-Russian all we do is say hey look at all of these preceding events in the last 20-40 years, might they have some explanation of why things are the way they are?

It's not as if we're pro-Russian because we want our country to look like Russia or think it's leaders are great, because they're obviously not or because hate America, it's about being annoyed by propaganda plastered all over our media with "Russia starts unprovoked war" or the fact we live in a world where rules based order is just synonymous with rules for thee and not for me mentality.


Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 28 2023 06:15pm)
This is what gets me, to be honest. The level of discourse is so low generally as to be found insulting.


Really? :lol: I get the complete opposite vibe from reading this thread. Posters seem more than willing to make any excuse they can possibly come up with to blame anyone and everyone but the actual leader/nation that's invading another country.
It's like Russian forces intentionally bomb civilians and the first reaction is: "Look what NATO/US has done! If they didn't do x and y, Russia wouldn't have had to do this!" :rofl:
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Mar 2 2023 07:54am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 2 2023 12:03pm)
it might be usual TO YOU but most people, in western society, would not typically see this blatant double standards in action. it is far more compelling to highlight issues such as this then to shout at people.


That guy is peak dishonesty as you recently found out (BoJo vid)


Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 2 2023 02:08pm)
Increasingly likely that Ukraine will retreat from Bakhmut. A truly brilliant and inexpensive victory for the Russian federation; Now their prize is a perfectly de-nazified Bakhmut.

Also Bakhmut

https://i.imgur.com/Brrna6m.png

https://i.imgur.com/2sZfmb8.png


Sending tons of weapons really worked by the look of it :rolleyes:

By the way



This post was edited by Djunior on Mar 2 2023 07:59am
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Mar 2 2023 08:03am
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 2 2023 01:54pm)
That guy is peak dishonesty as you recently found out (BoJo vid)


This is a fact. unfortunately.

I just watched that news briefing - thanks for sharing - reiterating Ukraine will join Nato is probably red mist to Russia so well, we will see what comes of it long term. its poor diplomacy though. A more nuanced tone / message will probably be given in 12-24 months time, hopefully.

the critical take away here is - wow she looks hot XD

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 2 2023 08:10am
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Mar 2 2023 08:15am
Quote (Bananii @ Mar 2 2023 01:28pm)
if hed comment every strike the US doin while bringing democracy to muslim countries he would understand, that russia isnt a rarity when it comes to such pictures..

show us some pictures of afghan wedding crushed by US idiots? no?

alright. i guess this guy dont even know what HIS government doing


This is a thread about Ukraine. I am not American; I also oppose Western nations causing innocents to die.
Iraq, Afghan, Libya were all mistakes in different ways.

The difference between me and others here is that I oppose the West AND Russia; While they are opposing the West and apologizing, justifying Russia.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 2 2023 02:03pm)
This is a fact. unfortunately.

I just watched that news briefing - thanks for sharing - reiterating Ukraine will join Nato is probably red mist to Russia so well, we will see what comes of it long term. its poor diplomacy though. A more nuanced tone / message will probably be given in 12-24 months time, hopefully.

the critical take away here is - wow she looks hot XD


Normalizing that users rhetoric actually detracts from your integrity also.
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Mar 2 2023 08:31am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 2 2023 02:15pm)
This is a thread about Ukraine. I am not American; I also oppose Western nations causing innocents to die.
Iraq, Afghan, Libya were all mistakes in different ways.

The difference between me and others here is that I oppose the West AND Russia; While they are opposing the West and apologizing, justifying Russia.



Normalizing that users rhetoric actually detracts from your integrity also.


Djunior is very poor at articulating his position and spends more time arguing with users (such as you) when I personally would much rather see him using logic to maturely explain his position, or debate a topic. Having said that if this thread contained only those users that think that the SUN rises when the West says so, that the US and Nato can do no wrong, That Russia and China are Evil, and we had no-one either neutral or questioning the West position (or being opposed to it) then the topic would have been over a long time ago. This is not the first time I have said ANY of this.

There are severe examples of hypocrisy in this thread as related to the state actors and as related to accusations against users by users in this topic. You did not deal with that BoJo video very well. You were given multiple opportunities to reassess your position, with the facts clearly presented to you, but you did not. In this regard it is impossible not to agree with Djunior on this.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 2 2023 08:36am
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Mar 2 2023 08:32am
China and Russia were the only #G20 members who did not agree to sign a statement demanding Russia's “complete and unconditional withdrawal from the territory of Ukraine,” according to a statement following a meeting of G20 foreign ministers in New Delhi.

Says long about the Putin's bootlickers infecting this thread, blaming all on "NATO" and "West" ...
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Mar 2 2023 08:33am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 2 2023 02:32pm)
China and Russia were the only #G20 members who did not agree to sign a statement demanding Russia's “complete and unconditional withdrawal from the territory of Ukraine,” according to a statement following a meeting of G20 foreign ministers in New Delhi.

Says long about the Putin's bootlickers infecting this thread, blaming all on "NATO" and "West" ...


what does it say? what are you suggesting? Note that to sign such a statement would be to ignore how the war started. Note also it is not unusual for some countries not to sign G20 statements - the US refusing to sign the Climate Change statement springs to mind.

on a side note i saw a fascinating suggestion - "Ukraine should seed the coast next to Moldova to Romania for 20yrs or until sovereign Ukraine regains its 1991 borders" - probably a really good idea right now, better to seed it to a neutral body temporarily then to lose it forever.

If someone wants to explain to me on who's authority the US is in Syria right now it would be great.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 2 2023 08:43am
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Mar 2 2023 08:41am
Quote (ferdia @ 2 Mar 2023 11:07)
I provided info to a link as related to Syria. If you had a mind you could easily give a fine example of western propaganda and double standards in action.

youtube watch this Djunior: "Zakharova defeated a CNN journalist! Watch until the end! Ukraine." <-- terrible headline ofc but the content was worth considering. this is a fine example of refuting western propaganda / exposing double standards.


see, that's one of the ways you (either deliberately or ignorantly) contribute to promoting russian disinformation:

OBVIOUSLY you can find examples of biased journalism, outright hit- and propaganda pieces, partisan outlets, flaws in the system, corporate corruption... in western (especially US) media. literally NO ONE said all of it is perfectly free and unbiased.
as a whole, however, it is still significantly more independent, critical, and objective than the strictly controlled media landscape you have in authoritarian shitholes like russia, china, north korea...

so finding examples of bad western journalism is not "exposing a double standard". it's just an anecdote trying to bothsides an issue that could not be more unequal if you looked at it as a whole:

https://rsf.org/en/index

https://rsf.org/en/country/russia

Quote
Media landscape

All privately owned independent TV channels are banned from broadcasting, except for cable entertainment channels. The Russian version of Euronews was suspended by Roskomnadzor, the media regulator, on 22 March 2022. Among the big print media outlets, which have belonged to Kremlin allies for a few years, those that had preserved their independence and were under constant threat of closure, like the independent tri-weekly Novaya Gazeta, have had to suspend their publications. Radio stations are in the same situation. Media outlets that have survived are faced with very strict self-censorship because of banned themes and words, and Western social networks are gradually being blocked.

Political context

President Vladimir Putin has seemed increasingly isolated from the outside world since the start of the pandemic. Only a very restricted circle now has access to him, and the last collective decision-making institutions, such as the Security Council, are no longer really collaborative. Parliament has become a chamber for recording decisions made by the Kremlin. The official discourse, relayed by an omnipresent propaganda, is mainly based on accounts of Russia’s “historical grievances” and conspiracy theories.

Legal framework

No journalist is safe from the threat of serious charges under vaguely worded draconian laws that were often adopted in haste. Many laws relating to freedom of expression that had been adopted in recent years – including defamation and “fake news” laws – were amended in order to incorporate them into the Penal Code at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic. The invasion of Ukraine gave a new impetus to this process, with parliament hastily adopting amendments under which “false information” about the Russian armed forces and any other Russian state body operating abroad is now punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

Economic context

The radical sanctions imposed on Russia by the Western democracies in response to the invasion of Ukraine have suddenly severed much of the Russian economy from Europe’s, with which it was closely integrated. This will likely result in a very long and extremely deep crisis. Beyond censorship – which has forced many media outlets to close and has impoverished the few remaining independent journalists, forcing them to change professions or go abroad – the regional media will be among the first victims of this economic crisis.

Sociocultural context

Although the internet connection rate is very high, almost two-thirds of Russians get their news mainly from television, which is controlled by the government, and from Russian social media such as VKontakte. Subjects such as homosexuality and religious feelings have gradually become off limits for the media under Vladimir Putin, who has encouraged a certain conservatism in Russian society.

Safety

In recent years, in addition to heavy sentences and even torture suffered by some journalists, mainly at the regional level, the frequent use of fines and short-term detentions under various pretexts have been added to the arsenal of systematic intimidation against journalists. The media are also under threat of arbitrary inclusion on the list of “foregin agents”, a status that comes with heavy bureaucratic hurdles and legal risks. Faced with additional risks incurred since the state of the war in Ukraine, many journalists working for independent media outlets have chosen exile.


trying to simplistically "bothsides" every issue is not being "fair" or "balanced" or "objective" or whatever you're trying (pretending) to be here, it's just being too dumb (or too dishonest) to put things into perspective, to see the bigger picture, and to draw reasonable and fair conclusions. those kinds of false equivalences ALWAYS benefit the side that is worse - i hope this helps you understand that.
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Mar 2 2023 08:46am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 2 2023 02:31pm)
Djunior is very poor at articulating his position and spends more time arguing with users (such as you) when I personally would much rather see him using logic to maturely explain his position, or debate a topic. Having said that if this thread contained only those users that think that the SUN rises when the West says so, that the US and Nato can do no wrong, That Russia and China are Evil, and we had no-one either neutral or questioning the West position (or being opposed to it) then the topic would have been over a long time ago. This is not the first time I have said ANY of this.

There are severe examples of hypocrisy in this thread as related to the state actors and as related to accusations against users by users in this topic. You did not deal with that BoJo video very well. You were given multiple opportunities to reassess your position, with the facts clearly presented to you, but you did not. In this regard it is impossible not to agree with Djunior on this.


As I recall you said something was "on the record", to me that is in reference to adirect quote; The video is proof of an implication. I complete accept that.
My issue is with your wording and you know that. On the record to me indicates the assumption of fact or a direct quote, a quote I still haven't seen you post.

My intention was not to refute what you were claiming but your choice of language; If you had said "I am convinced the Bojo persuaded Zelensky..." it would read completely different to
"Its on record that Bojo convinced Zelensky..."

Djunior is a hypocritical hack. Period. And you consistently accommodate and echo his sentiment; Make what you will of what that says about your integrity while discussing this particular issue.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 2 2023 08:56am
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