d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Democrat Division Megathread
Prev1191192193194195205Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 14,099
Joined: Jul 13 2006
Gold: 83.30
Mar 2 2020 07:52am
Quote (fender @ Mar 2 2020 11:55am)
what do you base that on? afaik, every head to head poll suggests the opposite. biden is a heavily flawed candidate (much like hillary was, though in different ways): his record leaves plenty of room to attack, he is a gaffe machine, and he's clearly mentally deteriorating. he doesn't excite or mobilise any new democratic voters, and is the embodiment of what america (somewhat surprisingly) rejected in the 2016 elections: the political establishment in washington.



i still don't get your support for that slimeball. literally the only thing he has objectively going for him is his age. his policies (the few one could even start to guess from his empty rhetoric) are of yesteryear, and his vision is non-existent. don't be sad though, he'll stick around for sure. the guy is so power hungry and focused, he will be donors' darling for decades to come, barring a true revolution of the whole corrupt system through a sanders presidency (which admittedly is rather unlikely). maybe he'll end up like paul ryan, but i wouldn't be surprised if he was lifted to the throne eventually, and you will have your young-ish corporate shill that you so desire for some reason...


I value age because there's a decent chance that Bernie would die during presidency. And in general I think governments should be representative of the people, in which case Congress/Cabinet/Presidents are way too fucking old.

How can a 70+ yo connect with those who have most of their lives ahead of them? Sure they were once young too, but times change.
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 286.00
Mar 2 2020 07:58am
Quote (balrog66 @ Mar 2 2020 08:52am)
I value age because there's a decent chance that Bernie would die during presidency. And in general I think governments should be representative of the people, in which case Congress/Cabinet/Presidents are way too fucking old.

How can a 70+ yo connect with those who have most of their lives ahead of them? Sure they were once young too, but times change.


America is pretty old right now.
Member
Posts: 14,099
Joined: Jul 13 2006
Gold: 83.30
Mar 2 2020 08:20am
Quote (Skinned @ Mar 2 2020 02:58pm)
America is pretty old right now.


While true, the representation of age in politics is skewed towards old people.
Member
Posts: 30,165
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 30%
Mar 2 2020 08:56am
Quote (balrog66 @ 2 Mar 2020 14:52)
I value age because there's a decent chance that Bernie would die during presidency. And in general I think governments should be representative of the people, in which case Congress/Cabinet/Presidents are way too fucking old.

How can a 70+ yo connect with those who have most of their lives ahead of them? Sure they were once young too, but times change.


simple: policy. why do you think sanders is so popular with young people in particular? because of his crazy hair, or because young generations identify with him on a personal level? no, it's because his platform addresses issues (healthcare, environment, wages, education...) that affect them, and that they care about, in a way that they like - unlike buttigieg, who might be closer to their age, but whose positions are much closer to that of the ancient washington elite.

substance > optics
Member
Posts: 54,184
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Mar 2 2020 09:02am
Quote (fender @ 2 Mar 2020 11:55)
what do you base that on? afaik, every head to head poll suggests the opposite


got a link to one or two such polls which show Sanders doing better than Biden in a h2h against Trump?

Quote
. biden is a heavily flawed candidate (much like hillary was, though in different ways): his record leaves plenty of room to attack, he is a gaffe machine, and he's clearly mentally deteriorating. he doesn't excite or mobilise any new democratic voters, and is the embodiment of what america (somewhat surprisingly) rejected in the 2016 elections: the political establishment in washington.


Sure, Biden is a deeply flawed candidate, but so is Sanders. There is a very deep treasure trove of attack angles that the Trump campaign can field against Bernie, and they havent even started digging into it. And no, those attacks are not limited to a dull "Bernie = socialist, socialism = bad"!

The video clips where he praises NK and Venezuela, even calls Venezuela a place "where the American dream is more alive" (than in the present-day U.S.) will not go over well with 90+% of the electorate. His calls to force the 160m+ Americans with a private healthcare plan to drop it in favor of a government-run plan will be a tough sell. His honesty in admitting that middle class taxes will have to be raised will be a tough sell. His calls for free healthcare for illegal immigrants will be a tough sell, and not just with the racist or ""racist"" parts of Trump's base - that shit wont fly with centrists and swing voters either. His hopes of flipping Texas based on latino turnout will end the moment the millions of Texans who are still depending on the oil and aerospace industries hear about what his Green New Deal would do to them. Oh yeah, talking about damaging video clips, Bernie once said in an interview that every prison inmate shall have the right to vote, even guys like Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the Boston marathon bomber. Do you seriously think that this position will have majority appeal?

When it comes to Biden and the comparisons with Hillary 2016: Hillary was much less liked than Biden, so that's one important difference. Hilary's net favorability rating was lower than that of any other prior presidential candidate in modern history. Only Trump's was even lower, but Hillary being extremely unpopular and polarizing in her own right neutralized Trump's unpopularity to a certain extent. Simply put, 2016 was forcing a lot of voters to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea. Biden vs Trump in 2020 would be a choice between the devil and 'meh' for these voters.

On top, Hillary was putting a much stronger focus on identity politics and pandering to SJWs than Bernie 2016 did. This time around, Biden benefits from his branding as the "anti-woke" candidate among the Democratic field. (And Bernie's embrace of latinos will rile up Trump's base...) Biden also benefits from his ties to the Obama administration, particularly among black voters. He benefits from the fact that everyone in the Democratic coalition will take Trump seriously this time around. He benefits from "Trump fatigue" which is affecting a lot of swing voters.



When it comes to Bernie vs Biden: Bernie's entire rationale for beating Trump is predicated on huge turnout of progressive, young and/or latino voters. Until now, this turnout hasnt really materialized. Iowa and Nevada had mediocre turnout, and the one in New Hampshire was mostly high because of their open primary system where GOP members could cast a vote in the Democratic primaries (note that the GOP didnt have a competitive primary in contrast to 2016). But we'll have to wait and see what happens tomorrow on Super Tuesday.

Furthermore, I would argue that Bernie's coalition is less efficiently positioned in the electoral college. Bernie is really strong in California, Oregon, Washington and the North East, he also might be strong in Nevada and Michigan. But places where he is decidedly weaker than nationally are Florida, North Carolina and Pennsylvania. Biden, on the other hand, is a lot stronger and Florida and Pennsylvania, and he might also have the edge over Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin. What it boils down to, imho, is that Bernie needs to flip Arizona (well possible) and Texas (that's a huge mountain to climb). Biden, on the other hand, will be very competitive in North Carolina and might even make a play for Georgia.





Quote
i still don't get your support for that slimeball. literally the only thing he has objectively going for him is his age. his policies (the few one could even start to guess from his empty rhetoric) are of yesteryear, and his vision is non-existent. don't be sad though, he'll stick around for sure. the guy is so power hungry and focused, he will be donors' darling for decades to come, barring a true revolution of the whole corrupt system through a sanders presidency (which admittedly is rather unlikely). maybe he'll end up like paul ryan, but i wouldn't be surprised if he was lifted to the throne eventually, and you will have your young-ish corporate shill that you so desire for some reason...


Agreed. I also dont get certain people's fascination with Buttigieg.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 2 2020 09:05am
Member
Posts: 40,248
Joined: Feb 14 2007
Gold: 5,737.99
Mar 2 2020 09:19am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 1 2020 05:32pm)
Well, Mayor Pete served as a safeguard in case Biden crumbles. Biden didnt, he rebounded in impressive fashion, so Buttigieg was no longer needed, and his campaign had no more chance of going anywhere.
Since he's young and still having very high ambitions, he probably didnt want to piss off the DNC or attach too much "losing" to his name/brand by staying in the race any longer.
He might even speculate on a cabinet position in Biden's administration. Either way, we definitely havent heard the last of him.

Yeah, I think Pete’s playing the long-game. Despite somewhat surging lately, I think Buttigieg recognized he didn’t have a clear path to victory, & also knows he’ll be one of the real front-runners next time. I could also see him being a VP on Biden’s ticket, since Biden somewhat struggles with younger people.
Member
Posts: 54,184
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Mar 2 2020 09:21am
Quote (IgoSoHard @ 2 Mar 2020 16:19)
Yeah, I think Pete’s playing the long-game. Despite somewhat surging lately, I think Buttigieg recognized he didn’t have a clear path to victory, & also knows he’ll be one of the real front-runners next time. I could also see him being a VP on Biden’s ticket, since Biden somewhat struggles with younger people.


I'm 100% certain that Biden's running mate will be a woman, and fairly certain that she'll be a woman of color.
Member
Posts: 40,248
Joined: Feb 14 2007
Gold: 5,737.99
Mar 2 2020 09:23am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 2 2020 09:21am)
I'm 100% certain that Biden's running mate will be a woman, and fairly certain that she'll be a woman of color.

Stacy Abrams ?
Member
Posts: 54,184
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Mar 2 2020 09:29am
Quote (IgoSoHard @ 2 Mar 2020 16:23)
Stacy Abrams ?


That's what I was thinking too. Young(ish), progressive, female, black, has run a strong campaign in Georgia in 2018. With her on the ticket, Biden might really make a play for Georgia, or at least force the Trump campaign to spend resources to hold it. And Abrams' focus on voting rights reform might be less offensive to Trump voters and not rile them up too much.

The problem I see with this ticket is that Abrams would add the most to Biden's campaign in regions (the South) and with demographics (Blacks) where Biden is already strong anyway. She might help with black turnout in Pennsylvania and Michigan though.
Member
Posts: 32,103
Joined: Dec 29 2009
Gold: 0.00
Mar 2 2020 01:03pm
Klobuchar is out, and will reportedly endorse Biden in Dallas tonight. DNC is circling the wagons.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/mar/02/pete-buttigieg-joe-biden-mike-bloomberg-bernie-sanders-super-tuesday-live-updates

This post was edited by Surfpunk on Mar 2 2020 01:04pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1191192193194195205Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll