I've been following it very much so.

trump doesn't care about corruption. that's why literally the only ukrainian corporation he's interested in, is the one hunter biden was in.

if trump was genuine about this, he would not have pressured a previous ukrainian government to STOP coordinating with the mueller probe into investigating manafort.
if trump was genuine about this, he wouldn't have made sondland EU ambassador. guy has no relevant experience whatsoever and only got that job because he donated a million dollar to trump.
if trump was genuine about corruption, ivanka and kushner wouldn't have a job.

you can't possibly be naive or stupid enough to believe that. i really hope that's just your being a cultist, because if that's your conclusion from just looking at the facts of this, that'd be pretty sad...

of course he pushed the burisma investigation out of a personal motive. so in this sense, he is guilty of the things he is accused of. the question, however, still remains if this misconduct is severe enough to constitute a "high crime or misdemeanor", the question still is if this misconduct justifies a response as drastic as removing a democratically elected president from office.

we know that the senate wont convict him, but I'd be interested in the thoughts of you more liberal/Dem-leaning/anti-Trump-leaning folks: do you really think that Trump deserves to be removed from office for these things he did with regard to Ukraine?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 21 2019 05:01pm

"The facts" Give me a break.

What facts? A Ukranian company that's taken $50 million US Tax Payer Dollars.
Now you have a VP's son, with no experience, gets elected to this position and collects $6 million dollars?

The President can appoint whomever he wants to be an ambassador. That's his presidential right. Whether others agree with it or not, that's his decision. You have no idea on the presidents input and decision making process on why he chooses his ambassadors.

A million dollar donation? The guy is a billionaire. He hands out million dollar charity donations. Lol.

This post was edited by GLYC123 on Nov 21 2019 05:11pm

btw: public support for impeachment is crumbling in the fivethirtyeight poll aggregator which includes polls conducted after sondland's testimony on wednesday:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

today's hearings could lift it up again, but overall, the public hearings dont seem to have moved the needle too much, particularly not in the direction the Dems had been hoping. there is clearly no forceful public majority for impeachment, and independents in particular dont seem to be warming up to it.

Happens in stock trading all the time. This kind of event has been assumed since day 1 and is already built into pubic opinion. Everybody knows Trump is corrupt and incompetent, so him being corrupt and incompetent isn't exactly something that will swing the charts.

I take it you fully support this whole wanting to hold up foreign aid in exchange for an investigation into political rivals thing? Nothing wrong with it?

Oh...then I suppose we should let Biden run for president instead. I mean now that we know he's a crook?

the question is: how is this NOT an impeachable offense by ANY standard? withholding congressionally sanctioned military aid and a white house visit in order to pressure a foreign government to help with domestic elections is a clear of a violation of not only LAWS, but also ethics and principles, as it gets.



you're moving the goal post. i didn't say it's not his right to appoint sondland as ambassador. i'm just pointing out the massive double standard to suggest trump was genuinely worried about corruption, when he basically embodies that word like no president before him. i also didn't say that i approve of the cronyism that hunter biden, ivanka trump, jared kushner, and all the others profit from - what i'm saying is that any halfway intelligent and honest person looking at the facts of this can only come to one reasonable conclusion: trump did abuse the office with the intention to obtain dirt on his political opponent from a foreign government. the fact that you're dodging this indicates that you're aware of it - which actually is a good thing i would say. guess it's better to be a partisan shill than too stupid to realise that...