Examples of immoral behavior from presidents in the past doesn't mean that society hasn't generally expected their presidents to behave in a moral way. And I wasn't alive at the time, but the president having affairs in a time before the digital age isn't equivalent to a president who openly displays his horrible character every day, multiple times. Americans weren't faced with JFK's philandering every day on their smartphones and televisions. Bill Clinton suffered at the time(by getting impeached), and his reputation has suffered in our present day because our society is developing a new norm of behavior.

Sorry, I just can't take people seriously who change their viewpoints as a matter of convenience. There's zero chance anybody on the right would suddenly come around to morality and character not mattering if it was an incredibly flawed Democrat in the White House. The inconsistency is ubiquitous.

Also, there's other norms like releasing tax returns and having your kids work in the White House that Trump has uniquely violated in recent history.

This post was edited by IceMage on Nov 5 2019 10:53am

Clinton got more votes. Your point is moot. More people preferred Hillary than Trump. Don't forget that.

The president is only he president because of a technicality, not actually because he was the most favored candidate.





Absolutely absurd.

Everyone knows people do shady things. Trump doing them out in the open only opens a nincompoops eyes. The only people being inspired by Orange mans Rhetoric in that case would be inept people. congratulations. what a following.

No other president brags about being able to shoot random people. No other President brazenly insulted people out in the open all of the time. THAT IS completely different than doing shady things behind closed doors. You are comparing apples to Sexual harassment and a constant disregard for authority.

Also, There is a thing called due process. No one is above the law. The current President is literally trying to change the laws to not allow whistleblowers in the future. The President is trying to hunt down the whistleblower and expose and charge that person for criminal activities. We live in a highly functional society that does not allow single individuals or entities to create dictatorships. Trump is trying to do that by removing sacred laws and ultimately principles that are the foundation of a fair and equal democracy. If Trump is successful in actually changing the landscape such that when the leader does something illegal or wrong that he/ or any leader literally cannot even be stopped by the laws put in place that critically stop corruption and mis-use of power then we are in a dictatorship. Do you not understand that? Anyone who stands for trump actually at their core and not just a a façade to keep a job or be accepted as a republican - is literally trying to eliminate our amazing democracy. Because Trump is, If you can't see that, then go read a book.

I couldn't care if its a Republican President. But not Orange man. Not someone trying to take away hundreds of years of progress towards a free world.

This post was edited by IroningTheMaiden on Nov 5 2019 11:12am

You simpletons do yourself a disservice by simplying such a complex topic down to such a watered down state where you think you have a point.

basically what you're saying is this, "you only won because we're playing monopoly. if i had these same rolls in Yahtzee i'd have wrecked you".

HRC had the best political advisers money could by, they have literal college credits on how the electoral system works in a presidential election, historical study of electoral results, etc.

they suggested HRC didn't campaign in the rust belt (read: Buy Boardwalk 1st time around the board), it didn't work out. Trump passed go, collected 200 dollars, HRC asked if she'd already scored a large straight.

it's not a technicality, it's the rules of the game. HRC could have won if she'd paid attention to the rules. instead she started a game of monopoly and said "i'm not going to buy any railroads" for basically no reason other than she already decided she'd won.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Nov 5 2019 11:42am

Not to be pedantic, but moot means "subject to debate".

The electoral college is not an obscure technicality, and the rules governing the presidential election are well understood. Hillary Clinton lost because her electoral strategy was fundamentally flawed.

The rest of your post is histrionic drivel. Trump is not destroying American democracy, and he is not setting himself up to be a dictator. He is not even in control of his own party.

There were attempts during the transition of power to derail and otherwise compromise the incoming administration. That does represent a threat to constitutional governance, and I'm glad that Barr is making every effort to hold them accountable.

horford mad


no one cares. 'holier-than-thou' bullshit is not an electable strategy, it's not a governing strategy, nor is it appealing to anyone in real life. you are stuck in the 1990s mentality (when gay marriage was illegal and you loved it)

As I said, we now see the shadows for what they are.

Everyone is a hypocrite, because we are all trying to claim a moral high ground that doesn't exist. Politics is war by other means. Our aspirations can be moral and high minded, but the application of political power is coarse and brutal.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Nov 5 2019 11:47am

His victory was the result of poor planning on Clinton yes, but his success in the primary was the result of 8 years of funding the inflammatory section of conservatives. Trump is basically the original birther and kept it going longer than anybody else.

I don't know how long the Trump esque politics will last, but it isn't sustainable in the long term. Its basically a last hoorah for the leftover racism of the last generation. He barely won in 20016 and in my opinion will set up a huge backlash in 2024 at the latest, stronger than even the anti Bush backlash in 2008.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Nov 5 2019 11:52am

so back on topic, apparently the DNC hasn't fixed any of their cyber-security issues

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/tom-steyer-aide-downloaded-rival-kamala-harris-south-042718134.html
Tom Steyer aide downloaded rival Kamala Harris' South Carolina campaign data: Officials

Literally everyone in the Democratic Party has access to NGP VAN. By design. I just laugh when I hear about these "scandals."

you cant inflame something if there are no combustibles around. the mistake by the Kochs was that they thought they could redirect the frustration and anger over obama's policies and the nation's leftward shift (which were already there!!) into a strong anti-tax, small-government movement. simply put, they thought they could turn this anger on the right into energy that gets a Romney-esque figure into the White House.

when that didnt pan out, they thought they could let this energy on the right fizzle out in a losing campaign by a RINO candidate like JEB! bush. instead, Trump came along and tapped directly into the anger that had been there all along, without trying to spin it in an "anti-government"-direction. remember that he specifically ran on not cutting government benefits, on preserving medicare and medicaid and so on. which is also why the "Kochesque" Obamacare repeal attempts by Trump and the GOP in the summer of 2017 were such a political disaster for them. (keep in mind that the biggest topic for Democrats in their 2018 wave was healthcare!)