Quote (Black XistenZ @ 3 Jun 2022 11:50)
The thing is that the Ukrainians want to fight for their freedom and sovereignty, even if it means great sacrifice. Neither you, nor me, nor any other foreigner, has any right to tell them to just roll over and become Russia's bitch. Particularly not when the true motivation behind this "advice" is clearly not a genuine concern for dead civilians but rather that the war is inconvenient for us.
Your argument that "surrendering would have been (and perhaps still is) prudent since it minimizes the casualties" would only have merit if there was no chance whatsoever for Ukraine to retain any of its freedom and sovereignty by fighting; if Russia capturing all of Ukraine was the inevitable outcome of the war. This is evidently not the case.
This is all horse shit.
1. If Ukrainians WANTED to fight, why are fighting age males being forcefully prevented from leaving the country, and being forcibly conscripted, since like day 2 of the conflict?
2. Nobody needs to be Russia's bitch. Just stop attacking the two republics in the Donbas, as well as Crimea. Easy enough.
3. The war isn't inconvenient to us. It doesn't even matter to us. It doesn't impact our national security at all. We're actively prolonging the war by robbing our own tax payers of hundreds of billions of dollars to fund Ukraine's government and send them weapons from our own Security stockpile. If it weren't for our involvement, wouldn't care one way or another.
Last but not least, who stated anything about surrender? Russia has not called for Ukraine's surrender, nor has it been offered. Why are you introducing this non-existent element to the conversation? Negotiate and come to a compromise? That's called
USING FUCKING DIPLOMACY, HOW RATIONAL GOVERNMENTS REACT TO RESOLVE WAR WITHOUT RESORTING TO WHOLESALE MASS MURDER. FFS.