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Jan 3 2022 01:01am
Quote (Sioux @ Jan 3 2022 01:51am)
Literally not true. Vaccines have always just softened the blow of the disease not made you completely immune. This is a misunderstanding of the word immune in relation to the vaccine which has always just meant immune system, or immunity which is the immune system having exposure to a given antigen. They didn't change the definition, they clarified language in a pandemic because the common American went their entire life without opening the CDCs website on vaccines until the year every American did.

These vaccines absolutely work at preventing severe illness and death. I dont know how much data you can have shown to you if you don't believe that to be the case. We're in a pandemic of the unvaccinated right now.


Really? So there's no such thing as sterilizing vaccines (which the COVID one isn't)?

I suggest you do a search for sterilizing vaccines on google and see what you find. Various articles saying it isn't possible and that vaccines don't do it.

Then, change your time frame to searches from before the pandemic. All of a sudden, tons of articles saying positive thinigs about it.

They are literally changing information so that people like you can't find it and just go for the latest and greatest, which is propaganda.

Here is an article from 1990 which states as much, no propaganda here:

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF00328978.pdf

Quote
The Ideal Vaccine
There are two sets of requirements. The primary requirements are two-fold:
1. The vaccine should be safe, even in immunocompromised people. No current
vaccine is completely safe but a mortality rate greater than 1/10^6 would not
be acceptable in the great majority of countries. The level of morbidity might
vary according to the perceived disease impact in the population, but
optimally, there should be no significant long-term sequelae. As far as
immunocompromised recipients are concerned, the main danger is from
vaccines containing an infectious agent. Recent experiments in immunocompromised animals gives rise to the hope that inclusion of genes coding for
selected T cell growth factors in a recombinant vector may afford substantial
protection (Flexner et al. 1987; Ramshaw et al. 1987).
2. The second requirement is that the vaccine should be highly effective and
optimally induce ‘sterilizing’ immunity, i.e. vaccination results in the complete
prevention of infection by a subsequent challenge dose of the wild-type
organism. Whether this is ever achieved by a current vaccine is unknown.
Such a requirement is particularly desirable in the case of retroviruses because
integration of viral DNA into the cell genome during viral replication results
in a cell potentially infected ‘for life’-a situation to be avoided if possible.
105
G.L. Ada
In other situations, and in immunocompetent hosts, a vaccine may be
optimally effective if vaccination reduces a subsequent infectious agent challenge load by say, 99.9%, so that the host’s own immune system can
comfortably cope with the remaining infectious agent. The vaccinee thus may
benefit from the immune responses to both the vaccine and to a reduced
wild-type infection.


Note they mention that the vaccine must have a mortality rate due to adverse reactions less than 1/10^6. That means in the US population if everyone were to be vaccinated, there should be less than 330 adverse reactions. Do you think less than 330 people have died from the vaccine or been injured from it?

This post was edited by tugofpeace on Jan 3 2022 01:24am
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Jan 3 2022 01:02am
Quote (toyake @ Jan 3 2022 01:59am)
Are you honestly worried about a 1.4 in 100k risk? If so, the risks of covid must terrify you.


For my heart? I don't want ANY risk. Especially not to save myself from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate (which is skewed by majority of elderly deaths as well, so my chance of survival as a younger person is even higher). The risks of COVID don't terrify me to begin with which is why I'm unvaccinated, so I'm not sure why that's even a talking point?

Don't know where you got your 1.4 number either.

This post was edited by tugofpeace on Jan 3 2022 01:03am
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Jan 3 2022 01:04am
Imagine being a biologist, not understanding simple biology and defending all days every day the worst vaccine in history

imagine being such a loser lmao

Quote (tugofpeace @ Jan 3 2022 08:02am)
For my heart? I don't want ANY risk. Especially not to save myself from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate. The risks of COVID don't terrify me to begin with which is why I'm unvaccinated, so I'm not sure why that's even a talking point?

Don't know where you got your 1.4 number either.


fatties aint afraid cause their health already fucked up, you cant break what's already broken

Quote (Sioux @ Jan 3 2022 07:51am)
Literally not true. Vaccines have always just softened the blow of the disease not made you completely immune. This is a misunderstanding of the word immune in relation to the vaccine which has always just meant immune system, or immunity which is the immune system having exposure to a given antigen. They didn't change the definition, they clarified language in a pandemic because the common American went their entire life without opening the CDCs website on vaccines until the year every American did.

These vaccines absolutely work at preventing severe illness and death. I dont know how much data you can have shown to you if you don't believe that to be the case. We're in a pandemic of the unvaccinated right now.


like the spread isnt done by vaccinated people :rolleyes: reality shows a different story
you know humanity is doomed when educated people dont see the problem

This post was edited by Melatonina on Jan 3 2022 01:06am
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Jan 3 2022 01:06am


Quote (tugofpeace @ 2 Jan 2022 22:39)
I'm not dancing around anything. Maybe the data is legit. Doesn't validate that vaccines work.

The graph I found, I was lucky to find because truthfully I didn't know where to look to find that. I just remembered it from when it was posted, I don't have the link saved. Definitely wasn't trying to hide the source, heck I tried to copy/paste the image but had to save it to my desktop and upload it since the site wouldn't let me link to it.

As far as peer reviewed? You really think that a peer reviewed article saying the vaccines don't work would be published, and Pfizer, Moderna, et al would just close shop and lose billions of dollars in R&D/profit?

Plenty of non peer reviewed articles out there that are legitimate, hiding behind certification will not get us anywhere. Censorship is ridiculous right now in the medical field.


You think multi billion dollar pharma companies like Merk & Roche would let Pfizer & Moderna get away with publishing shit studies? Why didn't J&J just squash findings regarding the efficacy & safety of their vaccine that resulted in less demand?

This post was edited by LouisLeGros on Jan 3 2022 01:07am
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Jan 3 2022 01:08am
Quote (tugofpeace @ Jan 2 2022 11:01pm)
The Ideal Vaccine
There are two sets of requirements. The primary requirements are two-fold:
1. The vaccine should be safe, even in immunocompromised people. No current
vaccine is completely safe but a mortality rate greater than l/IO6 would not
be acceptable in the great majority of countries. The level of morbidity might
vary according to the perceived disease impact in the population, but
optimally, there should be no significant long-term sequelae. As far as
immunocompromised recipients are concerned, the main danger is from
vaccines containing an infectious agent. Recent experiments in immunocompromised animals gives rise to the hope that inclusion of genes coding for
selected T cell growth factors in a recombinant vector may afford substantial
protection (Flexner et al. 1987; Ramshaw et al. 1987).
2. The second requirement is that the vaccine should be highly effective and
optimally induce ‘sterilizing’ immunity, i.e. vaccination results in the complete
prevention of infection by a subsequent challenge dose of the wild-type
organism.Whether this is ever achieved by a current vaccine is unknown.
Such a requirement is particularly desirable in the case of retroviruses because
integration of viral DNA into the cell genome during viral replication results
in a cell potentially infected ‘for life’-a situation to be avoided if possible.
105
G.L. Ada
In other situations, and in immunocompetent hosts, a vaccine may be
optimally effective if vaccination reduces a subsequent infectious agent challenge load by say, 99.9%, so that the host’s own immune system can
comfortably cope with the remaining infectious agent. The vaccinee thus may
benefit from the immune responses to both the vaccine and to a reduced
wild-type infection.


Bolded the relevant piece of your copypasta
Quote (tugofpeace @ Jan 2 2022 11:02pm)
For my heart? I don't want ANY risk. Especially not to save myself from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate (which is skewed by majority of elderly deaths as well, so my chance of survival as a younger person is even higher). The risks of COVID don't terrify me to begin with which is why I'm unvaccinated, so I'm not sure why that's even a talking point?

Don't know where you got your 1.4 number either.


You're gonna be shocked to find out the actual mortality data for covid then. In 80+ its 24%, in 20-49 its 0.6%. You're about 200 times more likely to die if you catch covid unvaccinated than get myocarditis and live from the vaccine. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.738423/full

Quote (Melatonina @ Jan 2 2022 11:04pm)
Imagine being a biologist, not understanding simple biology and defending all days every day the worst vaccine in history

imagine being such a loser lmao


If 99.9% of scientists agree on something and the only dissent comes from people like you, TiStuff and Lod222 maybe you should rethink your position.

This post was edited by Sioux on Jan 3 2022 01:15am
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Jan 3 2022 01:08am
Quote (tugofpeace @ 3 Jan 2022 06:47)
Skip to :42 - Rates of myocarditis from vaccination exceed rates of myocarditis after infection. So why should we be taking these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_ZVzrTeYk


Data from a clearly youtube whore (only watched by shitmultis) is restricted to men under 40 and is an amount of ... 15 cases over... millions ??
For moderna second shot specifically while all others are below infection. You can't handle this.

You got more chance to get hit in the finger by an airlines plane than dying of this.

take it easy
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Jan 3 2022 01:17am
Quote (tugofpeace @ Jan 3 2022 02:02am)
For my heart? I don't want ANY risk. Especially not to save myself from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate (which is skewed by majority of elderly deaths as well, so my chance of survival as a younger person is even higher). The risks of COVID don't terrify me to begin with which is why I'm unvaccinated, so I'm not sure why that's even a talking point?

Don't know where you got your 1.4 number either.


So why aren't you worried about the brain damage or heart damage covid can cause you?
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Jan 3 2022 01:18am
Quote (Sioux @ Jan 3 2022 02:08am)
Bolded the relevant piece of your copypasta

You're gonna be shocked to find out the actual mortality data for covid then. In 80+ its 24%, in 20-49 its 0.6%. You're about 200 times more likely to die if you catch covid unvaccinated than get myocarditis and live from the vaccine. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.738423/full


You bolded something without doing any research on your own :(

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html#:~:text=Two%20doses%20of%20inactivated%20polio,of%20IPV%20and%20tOPV%2C%20or

Three doses of the polio vaccine are 99-100% effective. Sounds like a sterilizing vaccine? Suggest you read the rest of that article to get an idea of what actual science looks like, instead of these modern day dipshits that change the definitions of things to fit their narrative.



As far as your myocarditis comment: why should I take any risk of myocarditis from a vaccine for an illness that has a 99.4% survival rate? Who will pay my bills if I do get myocarditis? What if I have problems the rest of my life?

What happens after the immunity from that vaccine wears off in six months and I have to get a booster? Do I risk another adverse reaction?

This post was edited by tugofpeace on Jan 3 2022 01:23am
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Jan 3 2022 01:18am
Quote (toyake @ Jan 3 2022 08:17am)
So why aren't you worried about the brain damage or heart damage covid can cause you?


brain damage is you rofl
there is nothing to fear if you're healthy and young from covid
unlike vaccine we'll have to live with it so why trying to avoid it with something that doesnt even work for it is beyond stupidity
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Jan 3 2022 01:19am
Quote (toyake @ Jan 3 2022 02:17am)
So why aren't you worried about the brain damage or heart damage covid can cause you?


What else can it do? Cause loss of limbs? Delirium? Insanity? Every imaginable health issue that's possible? OH NO!

Point me to your sources that show in detail what kinds of issues COVID is causing, and the incidence of these issues.
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