Did I say I wasn't wrong? I caught the discrepancy before you posted, that's all I'm saying. It still doesn't prove that vaccines do anything. A 10% vaccination difference does not account for a 50% increase in mortality rate. That's pretty much negligible.

Good thing we have more than just texas and california. Draw yourself a best fit line lmk what you come up with

I'm not dancing around anything. Maybe the data is legit. Doesn't validate that vaccines work.

The graph I found, I was lucky to find because truthfully I didn't know where to look to find that. I just remembered it from when it was posted, I don't have the link saved. Definitely wasn't trying to hide the source, heck I tried to copy/paste the image but had to save it to my desktop and upload it since the site wouldn't let me link to it.

As far as peer reviewed? You really think that a peer reviewed article saying the vaccines don't work would be published, and Pfizer, Moderna, et al would just close shop and lose billions of dollars in R&D/profit?

Plenty of non peer reviewed articles out there that are legitimate, hiding behind certification will not get us anywhere. Censorship is ridiculous right now in the medical field.

This post was edited by tugofpeace on Jan 3 2022 12:40am

I look at that chart you posted and read it as vaccines being very effective for the elderly and less so for young folks who are generally unlikely to die from covid

It isn't saying vaccines don't work lol. It's saying that covid is still dangerous for vaccinated old people. Data isn't pokemon cards you pull out of your back pocket as a trump card cause you saved it on your computer somewhere. Data is best considered in aggregate as any single result can be an outlier or have some confounding variable you aren't considering.

This post was edited by Sioux on Jan 3 2022 12:42am

Considering 90% of the cases were people below the age of 50, yes, you're using skewed data to pad the numbers. I could use your tactic and say they absolutely should be vaccinated because unvaccinated made up over 70% of hospitalizations while vaccinated only make up 6%.

Yes, the largest increase of mortality rate in the last 50+ years warrants changes to behavior. Adverse reactions are much more common with catching covid so if that's a concern you would support vaccinations for all ages. For example, myocarditis caused by vaccinations is 1.4 in 100k, compared to 150 per 100k caused by catching covid.

Exactly. My whole point is that the vaccines offer negligible benefit to young people with no comorbidities.

A person with a 99.7% survival rate who is vaccinated is someone that the media boasts about being saved by the vaccine, not realizing the outcome would've been the same 99.7% of the time even without the vaccine.



Absolutely it's dangerous for old people, not arguing that. They should get vaccinated.



Let me clarify: Legitimate vaccines, not ones in which the CDC needs to change the definition of a vaccine so that the COVID vaccine can be counted as a vaccine despite not preventing transmission/infection, work.

The COVID vaccine - obviously it has the capability of working, but it shouldn't even be called a vaccine. Vaccinated people are dying and catching it which shouldn't be happening at the rate that it is, and the risk reduction from the vaccine is absolute garbage. This is nothing more than a prophylactic treatment that MIGHT kick in if/when you get infected. It should be prioritized for old people and given to the young if they opt in.

People should not be losing their jobs and being barred from entry to places because of unvaccinated status.

Skip to :42 - Rates of myocarditis from vaccination exceed rates of myocarditis after infection. So why should we be taking these?

Literally not true. Vaccines have always just softened the blow of the disease not made you completely immune. This is a misunderstanding of the word immune in relation to the vaccine which has always just meant immune system, or immunity which is the immune system having exposure to a given antigen. They didn't change the definition, they clarified language in a pandemic because the common American went their entire life without opening the CDCs website on vaccines until the year every American did.

These vaccines absolutely work at preventing severe illness and death. I dont know how much data you can have shown to you if you don't believe that to be the case. We're in a pandemic of the unvaccinated right now.



So 0.003% of cases result in myocarditis in a subset population and you're concerend? I thought you were just shrugging off .25% mortality numbers but you're concerned about 0.003% getting a side effect they recover from? Also I hate that everyone reads articles about articles or videos about articles. Here's the original link https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1.full.pdf and here's the final paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 so myocarditis happens but at a much lesser rate than if you actually get symptomatic covid.

This post was edited by Sioux on Jan 3 2022 12:57am

Are you honestly worried about a 1.4 in 100k risk? If so, the risks of covid must terrify you.