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Jun 1 2022 03:03am
Quote (Ironfister @ 1 Jun 2022 01:52)
When there is a woman, and a man who tries to rape her, steal her money and kill after, they both participate in the crime. But they arent equally guilty.
What are the Ukraine negatives?
They are poorer than western Europe - right.
Corruption is more widespread than in western world - also probably right. They are working with it but its not easy to change in a short time, lol.
But its aint really comparable to what Russia currently are and what they do.
You havent answered a single question i asked you about Russia.
For me you are just Russian propagandist. Nothing you will say is to be taken seriously.


Ukraine is not a woman being raped. Ukraine is a nation that has been unkind to some of it's regions.

Crimea had a referendum. They voted to be annexed by Russia. More than once. This was an overwhelming majority vote.

The Donbas region has literally been raped by the Asov Battalion since 2014, when they declared independence from Ukraine, citing a sham election and massive corruption on unheard of scales.

Ukraine entered an agreement that they would never attempt to join NATO. Ukraine entered an agreement that Russian access to naval ports was a guaranteed. They have attempted to defy both agreements.

Ukraine has attempted to tax energy out of Russia and into Europe, Ukraine has been building up a massive military presence in the Donbas region for the last several years.

Now, as to what Ukraine HASN'T done. They haven't had some illusive ace shooting down dozens of Russian pilots. They didn't have a snake island incident where troops refused to surrender and died valiantly to the last man. They surrendered and were healthy and relatively unharmed in Russian custody, assured they'd be returned to Ukraine after the conflict. They have not acted in good faith regarding arms shipments they've received, especially from the US, with over 80% of all munitions randomly disappearing. They haven't made any great strides in staving off the Russian advance, and have not shown they're competent at much other than propaganda.

Bottom line, rather than other nations continuing to supply hundreds of billions worth of weapons, ammunition, and other military support out of their own coffers, how about Ukraine goes to the table, acknowledges that Crimea and Donbas hates them, NATO will be denied them, and simply acknowledge the reality?

The absolute worst thing anyone anyone did was raise one single opinion regarding Russia-Ukraine. It's their issue, they can deal with it. If Ukraine never expected to have help, they'd have dealt with the Russians diplomatically. Now? Well Ukraine, reap what you sow.
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Jun 1 2022 03:04am
Quote (Ironfister @ Jun 1 2022 09:52am)
You havent answered a single question i asked you about Russia.


what did you ask him about russia ?

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 1 2022 10:03am)
Ukraine is not a woman being raped. Ukraine is a nation that has been unkind to some of it's regions.

Crimea had a referendum. They voted to be annexed by Russia. More than once. This was an overwhelming majority vote.

The Donbas region has literally been raped by the Asov Battalion since 2014, when they declared independence from Ukraine, citing a sham election and massive corruption on unheard of scales.

Ukraine entered an agreement that they would never attempt to join NATO. Ukraine entered an agreement that Russian access to naval ports was a guaranteed. They have attempted to defy both agreements.

Ukraine has attempted to tax energy out of Russia and into Europe, Ukraine has been building up a massive military presence in the Donbas region for the last several years.

Now, as to what Ukraine HASN'T done. They haven't had some illusive ace shooting down dozens of Russian pilots. They didn't have a snake island incident where troops refused to surrender and died valiantly to the last man. They surrendered and were healthy and relatively unharmed in Russian custody, assured they'd be returned to Ukraine after the conflict. They have not acted in good faith regarding arms shipments they've received, especially from the US, with over 80% of all munitions randomly disappearing. They haven't made any great strides in staving off the Russian advance, and have not shown they're competent at much other than propaganda.

Bottom line, rather than other nations continuing to supply hundreds of billions worth of weapons, ammunition, and other military support out of their own coffers, how about Ukraine goes to the table, acknowledges that Crimea and Donbas hates them, NATO will be denied them, and simply acknowledge the reality?

The absolute worst thing anyone anyone did was raise one single opinion regarding Russia-Ukraine. It's their issue, they can deal with it. If Ukraine never expected to have help, they'd have dealt with the Russians diplomatically. Now? Well Ukraine, reap what you sow.


i tend to agree with most (not all) of that.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 1 2022 03:10am
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Jun 1 2022 04:07am
topic closed? 😅
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Jun 1 2022 04:13am
sorry for double post!
/e saved by Bananii. what topic closed ?

Foxnews:

President Biden said Tuesday that the United States is sending "more advanced rocket systems and munitions" as part of the latest weapons package for Ukraine, but stressed that his administration is not enabling the Ukrainians to strike outside their own border. It's the 11th package approved so far and will include helicopters, tactical vehicles, Javelin anti-tank missiles, Stinger antiaircraft missiles, and other advanced weapons. "We have moved quickly to send Ukraine a significant amount of weaponry and ammunition so it can fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table," the president wrote in an op-ed for the New York Times on Tuesday. "That’s why I’ve decided that we will provide the Ukrainians with more advanced rocket systems and munitions that will enable them to more precisely strike key targets on the battlefield in Ukraine."

Ukrainian officials have been pushing for more advanced rocket systems, such as the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), known as HIMARS (High Mobility Rockets System), which have a range of 83 to 185 miles and are expected to be included in the latest package. Biden said earlier in the week that he would not send "rocket systems that can strike into Russia," a point he emphasized in Tuesday's op-ed. "We are not encouraging or enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders," Biden wrote. "We do not want to prolong the war just to inflict pain on Russia." Rebekah Koffler, a former Defense Intelligence Agency officer and author of "Putin's Playbook: Russia's Secret Plan to Defeat America," said the Biden administration recognizes that they are "walking a very, very fine line with the Russians" by sending more advanced systems.

"The risk is always there. It’s about managing the risk," Koffler told Fox News Digital. "Both countries, neither Russia nor the United States, want to go to war with each other because both recognize that the minute they step on that path, it goes very quickly, and war gaming has demonstrated that it escalates uncontrollably." The latest weapons package draws from a nearly $40 billion bill Congress passed last month that will provide military, economic, and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. Russia warned last month of "unpredictable consequences" if the U.S. and NATO allies continue sending Ukraine "sensitive" weapons.

Mirrored on CNN:

(CNN)President Joe Biden said Tuesday the US is providing Ukraine "more advanced rocket systems and munitions" as its war with Russia grinds on. Writing in a New York Times op-ed, Biden said the US goal is "to see a democratic, independent, sovereign and prosperous Ukraine with the means to deter and defend itself against further aggression." He said the new shipment of arms would "enable them to more precisely strike key targets on the battlefield in Ukraine." Senior administration officials confirmed to reporters on Tuesday that the US will send Ukraine US-made High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems as part of the US' 11th package of security assistance to Ukraine.

The officials said the systems that the US is sending Ukraine will be equipped with munitions that will allow Ukraine to launch rockets about 49 miles. That is far less than the systems' maximum range, but far greater than anything Ukraine has been sent to date. The new security assistance package, to be announced officially on Wednesday, will also include air surveillance radars, additional Javelin anti-tank weapons, anti-armor weapons, artillery rounds, helicopters, tactical vehicles and spare parts to help the Ukrainians continue maintaining the equipment, the officials said. Still, Biden sought to spell out clearly what the US aims in Ukraine were and was careful to note the US is not looking to directly engage Russia.

"We do not seek a war between NATO and Russia. As much as I disagree with Mr. Putin, and find his actions an outrage, the United States will not try to bring about his ouster in Moscow," Biden said, roughly two months after declaring in Warsaw, Poland, that Russian President Vladimir Putin "cannot remain in power." The new security assistance comes as Russia has pummeled Ukraine in the east, where the country is outmanned and outgunned, Ukrainian officials have said. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly pleaded with world leaders for more arms and equipment. CNN previously reported that US officials were debating for weeks whether to send Ukraine the advanced rocket systems, because they can strike so much further than any weapons they already have. The weapons' long range, technically capable of striking Russian territory, raised concerns that Russia might view the shipments as provocative.

"So long as the United States or our allies are not attacked, we will not be directly engaged in this conflict, either by sending American troops to fight in Ukraine or by attacking Russian forces," Biden wrote in the op-ed. "We are not encouraging or enabling Ukraine to strike beyond its borders. We do not want to prolong the war just to inflict pain on Russia." Last Friday, a prominent Russian television host warned that the shipment of long-range rocket systems to Ukraine would "cross a red line" that would "provoke a very harsh response from Russia." But the Biden administration made it clear that it would not send ammunition for the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems system that can strike deep into sovereign Russian territory. "I think where the US stands is wanting to provide all of the assistance that we can to the Ukrainians without escalating the situation to a point where the war spills over or, frankly, goes in a terrible direction," Army Secretary Christine Wormuth said earlier Tuesday.

Meanwhile, the US has accepted some risk to its own readiness with the continued shipment of weapons from Defense Department inventories to Ukraine, Wormuth said, but not a risk that the Pentagon considers too high. "We have really leaned in to trying to provide everything the policy makers deem essential to get to the Ukrainians. And we have taken some risk to our own readiness -- not an unacceptable level of risk at all, but I think we will continue to do that," she said while speaking at an Atlantic Council event about the Army's role in the National Defense Strategy. The President said that US officials "currently see no indication that Russia has intent to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, though Russia's occasional rhetoric to rattle the nuclear saber is itself dangerous and extremely irresponsible." "Let me be clear: Any use of nuclear weapons in this conflict on any scale would be completely unacceptable to us as well as the rest of the world and would entail severe consequences," Biden wrote.

This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 1 2022 04:15am
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Jun 1 2022 04:23am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Jun 1 2022 04:03am)
Ukraine is not a woman being raped. Ukraine is a nation that has been unkind to some of it's regions.

Crimea had a referendum. They voted to be annexed by Russia. More than once. This was an overwhelming majority vote.

The Donbas region has literally been raped by the Asov Battalion since 2014, when they declared independence from Ukraine, citing a sham election and massive corruption on unheard of scales.

Ukraine entered an agreement that they would never attempt to join NATO. Ukraine entered an agreement that Russian access to naval ports was a guaranteed. They have attempted to defy both agreements.

Ukraine has attempted to tax energy out of Russia and into Europe, Ukraine has been building up a massive military presence in the Donbas region for the last several years.

Now, as to what Ukraine HASN'T done. They haven't had some illusive ace shooting down dozens of Russian pilots. They didn't have a snake island incident where troops refused to surrender and died valiantly to the last man. They surrendered and were healthy and relatively unharmed in Russian custody, assured they'd be returned to Ukraine after the conflict. They have not acted in good faith regarding arms shipments they've received, especially from the US, with over 80% of all munitions randomly disappearing. They haven't made any great strides in staving off the Russian advance, and have not shown they're competent at much other than propaganda.

Bottom line, rather than other nations continuing to supply hundreds of billions worth of weapons, ammunition, and other military support out of their own coffers, how about Ukraine goes to the table, acknowledges that Crimea and Donbas hates them, NATO will be denied them, and simply acknowledge the reality?

The absolute worst thing anyone anyone did was raise one single opinion regarding Russia-Ukraine. It's their issue, they can deal with it. If Ukraine never expected to have help, they'd have dealt with the Russians diplomatically. Now? Well Ukraine, reap what you sow.


Oh Jesus Christ! Of course you're a fucking Putin bootlicker. Putin sends agents provocateur into the Donbas to foment unrest and rebellion and then when the Ukrainians react, they're the bad guys? FOH
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Jun 1 2022 04:41am
Quote (Santara @ May 31 2022 08:05pm)
It matters if they decide they're not done fighting, dope.


First of all, there are many Ukrainians that don't want to fight and don't give a damn about Zelensky.

Secondly, Russia is prepared to fight for years and will chip away as much territory as it needs or wants. There is nothing that can stop them from doing this.

The only thing that keeping up the fight accomplishes is getting more Ukrainians killed. More of them die, and for what? The exact same outcome no matter what: losing more territory which will never be regained.
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Jun 1 2022 04:47am
Quote (Santara @ 1 Jun 2022 03:23)
Oh Jesus Christ! Of course you're a fucking Putin bootlicker. Putin sends agents provocateur into the Donbas to foment unrest and rebellion and then when the Ukrainians react, they're the bad guys? FOH


I don't give two shits about Putin or Zelenskyy either one. Nor should I. Nor should my nation. The regional dispute is not our concern, and does not impact our national security.

On the flipside, gifting them hundreds of billions worth of weapons out of our own national security reserves as well as paying cash so they can pay their government officials (wtf?) while at the same time mass inflation at home is causing the working American's paycheck to have half the purchasing power.

I don't care about Ukraine. I shouldn't care about Ukraine. My government stealing my paycheck and sending it to Ukraine makes me furious. It's their regional dispute. They have the means to resolve it. There's no need to beggar Americans for Ukrainians.

Now if Ukraine wants to openly become an American protectorate... The answer would still be no. This is a European problem. The average American has had enough of playing nanny for Europe. Resolve your own issues. If the EU sees threat, or the UK, or whoever else, fucking dig in. Just don't cry to us when Russia responds.
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Jun 1 2022 04:49am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 31 2022 11:33pm)
Part of donbass is still in Ukrainian hands, like 30%.
I believe Ukrainians mostly want return to 24february borders.
Their army is crushed daily only in Russian social channels :)
I dont know if UA can win back territories, its more difficult to attack than to defend.
Its possible Russia wont be able to continue war any longer, and so it will be forced to accept Ukraine terms and retreat to Russia. We dont know that.



I already told you how it works, Russian army makes Ukrainian citizens say that it was UA army that hurt them. Dont accept what Russia propaganda says you, lol.


Hopelessly delusional Eurolemmings.

Everyday pics of dozens of dead Ukrainians are posted to telegram. You think they're all faked? Lol

The Ukrainian military is losing anywhere from 200 - 400 per day, sometimes more. Meanwhile all supply routes to the Donbass are being bombed relentlessly.

The Donbass will be lost to Ukraine for good, it's just a matter of time now.

What comes after is anyone's guess, but most likely Russia will move to secure Odessa and Kharkov
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Jun 1 2022 04:52am
Quote (ferdia @ Jun 1 2022 04:13am)
sorry for double post!
/e saved by Bananii. what topic closed ?

Foxnews:

President Biden said Tuesday that the United States is sending "more advanced rocket systems and munitions" as part of the latest weapons package for Ukraine, but stressed that his administration is not enabling the Ukrainians to strike outside their own border. It's the 11th package approved so far and will include helicopters, tactical vehicles, Javelin anti-tank missiles, Stinger antiaircraft missiles, and other advanced weapons. "We have moved quickly to send Ukraine a significant amount of weaponry and ammunition so it can fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table," the president wrote in an op-ed for the New York Times on Tuesday. "That’s why I’ve decided that we will provide the Ukrainians with more advanced rocket systems and munitions that will enable them to more precisely strike key targets on the battlefield in Ukraine."



Yes Biden is risking ww3 for all of us by sending MLRS systems that could be used to strike Russian territory on a "promise" from Ukraine that they totally will not use them to strike into Russia.

Ridiculous. Biden is risking the lives of every single American to fight his petty proxy war in Ukraine just because of the Neocon hatred for Russia.
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Jun 1 2022 05:41am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ 1 Jun 2022 10:52)
Yes Biden is risking ww3 for all of us by sending MLRS systems that could be used to strike Russian territory on a "promise" from Ukraine that they totally will not use them to strike into Russia.

Ridiculous. Biden is risking the lives of every single American to fight his petty proxy war in Ukraine just because of the Neocon hatred for Russia.


No one need Loots, rapes, executions, shellings Russian supporters here.
PUTIN is the one risking ww3.
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