Quote (ofthevoid @ May 17 2022 06:47pm)
I’m still kind of confused on the logic behind saying Russia is losing/lost. What’s the metric for success vs failure being used? I think it entirely depends on how you frame the conversion.
The minimum metric I would use for Russian Victory would be as follows:
1. Ukraine casts away its will to Join Nato
2. Ukraine cedes land / certain areas of Eastern Ukraine are declared independant, pro-russian
However:
While I understood that Ukraine may have considered point 1, I dont believe they ever intended on 2. Also, I expect now Ukraine is going to be able to remove all of Russia's forces from Ukraine (provided Russia only uses conventional means), i.e. that Ukraine "beats" the Russians out of Ukraine. Therefore at the negotiation table, it is now looking more and more likely that 1, and certainly 2, are unrealistic, for Russia.
From BBC:
Talks between Russia and Ukraine to end the war are on hold, both sides confirm. Russia says Ukraine has "practically withdrawn" from the negotiations, while Kyiv blames Moscow for failing to compromise.
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What I would say here is, Ukraine NOW has NO NEED to go to the negotiation table as they now see a route to victory, therefore they do not need to negotiate with Russia. Previously my view was the Russians had NO NEED to go to the negotiation table as they wanted to be in an overwhelming position from which to make demands. time and events have overtaken the russians. therefore on this basis i see Russia "losing".
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slighly off topic: Finally from what I read about the matter and on review of the Russia / Ukraine war, I never envisage a scenario of Russia going anywhere near Finland because Finland has a decent army. as already mentioned russia will make noise and point missiles and a drop in diplomatic relations is about what i expect.
This post was edited by ferdia on May 17 2022 01:33pm