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Member
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May 16 2022 11:51am
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/05/16/Turkey-s-Erdogan-says-will-not-approve-Sweden-and-Finland-joining-NATO
https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/gundem/cumhurbaskani-erdogan-turkiyeye-yaptirim-uygulayanlarin-natoya-girmelerine-evet-demeyiz/2589592
translated -> https://www-aa-com-tr.translate.goog/tr/gundem/cumhurbaskani-erdogan-turkiyeye-yaptirim-uygulayanlarin-natoya-girmelerine-evet-demeyiz/2589592?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Erdogan has made his official public announcement that he will veto Finland and Swedens application to join NATO;

Quote
President Erdogan: We will not say 'yes' to those who impose sanctions on Turkey to join NATO


Technically his careful phrasing opens the door to Finland/Sweden if they drop sanctions on Turkey and end support for the Kurds, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that
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May 16 2022 11:57am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 16 2022 01:43pm)


Poland is desperately trying to white-wash it's history banning any historian who dares bring up it's ugly past but that's not reality. Some Poles during WW2 are absolutely responsible for the genocide. That's not to take away from the ones that helped, because many did, but don't try to lie to yourself and others.


Quote
In a 1970 article, pioneering Polish-Jewish historian Szymon Datner estimated that 200,000 Jews died at the hands of Poles during World War II. Attempting to flee the Germans’ cattle cars and camps, they found their deaths after being handed over to the authorities, informed upon while in hiding, or through murder by their Polish neighbors.

From 1942 to 1945, according to Datner’s calculations, of the 250,000 Jews who attempted to escape the Germans in occupied Poland, only 10-16 percent survived.

A Jewish Holocaust survivor himself, Datner eventually became the head of the Jewish Historical Institute of Warsaw and worked as a historian for the precursor to Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance (IPN). But were he alive today, he would potentially be prosecuted for his scholarly findings.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/complicity-of-poles-in-the-deaths-of-jews-is-highly-underestimated-scholars-say/

Part of it has to do with the fact that Poles really don't want to give back the wealth that was seized from these Jews.

Quote
Poland remains the only EU country that has not legislated on property restitution. And that rankles. "For many years, Holocaust survivors and their families have waited for Poland to provide them with a measure of justice for the taking of their property as well as recognition of the losses of those who perished," Gideon Taylor, the World Jewish Restitution Organization's (WJRO) director of operations, told DW.

"While their property was first taken by the Nazis during the Holocaust, the Polish communists then nationalized the property of Jewish and non-Jewish owners and the Polish economy continues to benefit from these nationalizations," Taylor says.

Before World War II, 3.5 million Jews lived in Poland, making up 10% of the population; in Warsaw the figure was estimated at about a third of the then 1 million population.


https://www.dw.com/en/nationalized-jewish-property-warsaws-restitution-problem/a-52156875
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May 16 2022 12:01pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ May 16 2022 04:03pm)
entitled trash like i said

while theyre on the verge of leeching another 40 BILLION $usd from USA


I would not call it leeching. the US is very happy to provide these funds.

Quote (Norlander @ May 16 2022 04:53pm)
Ukrainian refugee in Spain got arrested for beating a policeman. She tried to attack ethnic Russians (locals) attempting to march on May, 9th to honor Immortal Regiment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Regiment [/URL]. Policeman was holding her trying to move away while she was kicking him. Now she's being interviewed about how cruel and traitorous Spain is, though she took all her family there. She says she needs a shelter from Viktor Medvedchuk (pro-Russian politician, captured in Ukraine)
and his party (banned in Ukraine). Anatoly Sharij advises her to go back to Kyev since her problems are already fixed by Zelensky. She preferred to act like a blonde (she said she were in police department for 5 hours, nobody visited her, nobody showed the way to a toilet. Anatoly resumes that the cage already has a toilet and asks to help real refugees.


Spanish police are known in europe for having no nonsense. ultimately I can acknowledge that all parades like this are divisive and ideally no such parades would ever occur but life is full of things that we dont like and we either live with them or do something about it. assaulting a police officer is probably not the first option i would take.

i say this noting that (as ppl know, i am irish) in northern ireland parade season always results in rising tensions, violence etc and if you want to move forward you have to compromise, and rubbing salt in peoples wounds, intentional or not, is not the way to do that, thus my view: no parades for anyone.

ALSO, thank you for translating.

Quote (HeLiCaL @ May 16 2022 05:30pm)


this also happens. refugees are always vulnerable to shit like this. for myself all i can say is, my family is in the process of housing a refugee family from ukraine.

Quote (Ironfister @ May 16 2022 06:43pm)


Its probably safer to provide this wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946) as it gives further background and explains some of the things to which have been thrown at you. note that this link to my mind also supports your view.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 16 2022 12:11pm
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May 16 2022 12:11pm
Quote (ferdia @ May 16 2022 09:01pm)
I would not call it leeching. the US is very happy to provide these funds.


and thats the problem with US government



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May 16 2022 12:12pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ May 16 2022 07:11pm)
and thats the problem with US government

https://i.imgur.com/2TglTJA.jpg


you will not see me disagreeing on this point ok!
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May 16 2022 12:12pm
Quote (Ironfister @ 16 May 2022 20:43)


And the whole world has to answer right now
Just to tell you once again
Who's bad?
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May 16 2022 12:19pm
Quote (Norlander @ May 16 2022 07:12pm)
And the whole world has to answer right now
Just to tell you once again
Who's bad?


it all goes back to this:

Quote (Ironfister @ May 16 2022 03:46pm)
A typical Russian way is to get conscripts in the first line, while keeping experienced ones in the back.
If somebody from the first line wants to retreat, he is shoot down.
A typical conscription in Russia occupied area looks like this: "we either kill you and your family (or move you all to Syberia which is pretty similar) or you join our army and we let your family free and give you freedom too after the war".
Its all inhuman but well, that's Russia


your comments are basically like a brush, claiming ALL Russians, or say, ALL Irish, or say ALL Israeli, or say ALL Americans, are inhuman. When you use broad statements like this, it is naturally going to get under peoples skin. ultimately use whatever terminology you want, but then dont be surprised when people either call you out for it, or flame you in response. I personally, if I was Polish, would have stuck to firmer ground and said something like this:

1. The Russian army Invaded
2. The Russian governemnt treated Poland deplorably (and could provide ample links as proof)
2. Elements of said army commited war crimes (and could provide ample links as proof)
3. Putin is very dangerous
4. Enter something here about LGBT/Siberia/PPL that disagree with Putin and what happens to them (also easily retrievable)

This post was edited by ferdia on May 16 2022 12:22pm
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May 16 2022 12:43pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 16 May 2022 19:57)
Poland is desperately trying to white-wash it's history banning any historian who dares bring up it's ugly past but that's not reality. Some Poles during WW2 are absolutely responsible for the genocide. That's not to take away from the ones that helped, because many did, but don't try to lie to yourself and others.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/complicity-of-poles-in-the-deaths-of-jews-is-highly-underestimated-scholars-say/

Part of it has to do with the fact that Poles really don't want to give back the wealth that was seized from these Jews.

https://www.dw.com/en/nationalized-jewish-property-warsaws-restitution-problem/a-52156875


The Warsaw was totally destroyed during the WW2. By nazi Germans and help from Stalin's Russia.
City was like a Mariupol today. Or worse, not sure. In fact Hitler ordered a total demolition of the whole city, as a punishment for uprisings.
Communist government decided they dont move the capital away, dont abandon the ruined city, but nationalize the ruins and rebuild it.
The whole Polish country worked hard to rebuild our capital.
Now, after like 60 years, we are back in EU and western world, and some jewish people came and wanted us to return land with buildings that werent there after the war, or were ruined.
Do you consider that fair? I dont.
Ask the Germans for money, they did the damage, why you dont ask them, yet all the time you jewish guys want money from the poor polish people, that were under occupation for 80% of the last 300years.
300years of robbery, of killing our intelligence and elites.
Also of course we dont even have valid documents about the jewish ownership of this land anymore, as nazists and later communists destroyed them.
So we cant really be sure that a person who comes is a real owner.
The guy can have documents from lets say year 1920, but how do we know that he didnt sell it later or if his documents werent faked?
Its all a big "sorry, no money for you".
Jewish people can be mad at us, but really its not even feasible for a country to give away our capital city.

This post was edited by Ironfister on May 16 2022 12:57pm
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May 16 2022 12:56pm
Quote (ferdia @ 17 May 2022 02:19)
it all goes back to this:



^Ironfister your comments are basically like a brush, claiming ALL Russians, or say, ALL Irish, or say ALL Israeli, or say ALL Americans, are inhuman. When you use broad statements like this, it is naturally going to get under peoples skin. ultimately use whatever terminology you want, but then dont be surprised when people either call you out for it, or flame you in response. I personally, if I was Polish, would have stuck to firmer ground and said something like this:

1. The Russian army Invaded
2. The Russian governemnt treated Poland deplorably (and could provide ample links as proof)
2. Elements of said army commited war crimes (and could provide ample links as proof)
3. Putin is very dangerous
4. Enter something here about LGBT/Siberia/PPL that disagree with Putin and what happens to them (also easily retrievable)


Chopsticks2.0
Hows things going mate.
I have some new Geo Political stuff that you might find interesting
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May 16 2022 01:03pm
Quote (ferdia @ 16 May 2022 21:19)
it all goes back to this:



^Ironfister your comments are basically like a brush, claiming ALL Russians, or say, ALL Irish, or say ALL Israeli, or say ALL Americans, are inhuman. When you use broad statements like this, it is naturally going to get under peoples skin. ultimately use whatever terminology you want, but then dont be surprised when people either call you out for it, or flame you in response. I personally, if I was Polish, would have stuck to firmer ground and said something like this:

1. The Russian army Invaded
2. The Russian governemnt treated Poland deplorably (and could provide ample links as proof)
2. Elements of said army commited war crimes (and could provide ample links as proof)
3. Putin is very dangerous
4. Enter something here about LGBT/Siberia/PPL that disagree with Putin and what happens to them (also easily retrievable)


Not Russian, Soviet. Soviet regime treated us all the same. Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Jews. If there were some Irish then I have no doubts they would go to GULAG as "enemies of the people". Socialism means equality.
A week ago Mr Ironfister noted that it was hard to get a pair of boots of proper size in Warsaw and poles have suffered a lot finding a guy to change it. Well, we have to do one step more taking a train to Warsaw, not to mention getting an approval.
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