Most of these pictures are like: "western extremists ally with UA right wing".
Its correct there are some extremists in western countries, Ukraine also.
There is an internet today, people are stupid, sometimes such movements are sponsored by Russia too.
Here in Poland our far-rightwingers are also only Russia friends on our politics.
Totally Russia style to me: first they sponsor, support and grow rightwing extremists, then they blame country as nazi for their small presence in the population
Its true no country has a perfect population, especially in the age of free internet, free speech. countries need to keep working on their people, not to let any sort of intolerance grow, apart from freaks who will keep being freaks.
Hovewer what Russia does, is just pure evil at National level.

This post was edited by Ironfister on May 14 2022 12:06am

Imagine living in such a partisan world that you see no choice but siding with Russian war criminals or Nazi war criminals. Why is that a dichotomy to you? Did America have any such hangups about opposition to both Hitler and Stalin?

I care about American self-interest, not a neo-imperialist mantle of responsibility for the rest of the world. Dead Ukrainians and dead Russians bother me less than what it means for us geopolitically.

You're mentioning a good counterexample to your own argument. America opposed both Hitler and Stalin, nazism and communism, yet still picked one side and supported them with crucial weapons and loans. Same situation today, except that present-day Ukraine is far better than nazi-Germany or the Stalin-led Soviet Union. If a choice was possible back then, it sure as hell should be easy today.

Geopolitically, I don't see how letting Putin have Ukraine is a better outcome than stopping him right here... but we've been over this before. You operate under the basic premise that Russia will eventually win this war, no matter what, while I think Ukraine holding all of its territory except for the Donbass and Crimea is still a very real possibility (and a much preferable outcome).

Trump supporters are over democracy and freedom. They want to be white nationalist to Trump like white nationalists are to Putin.

It's funny the racist dark enlightenment type users are supporting putin with the excuse of denazifying a place. To denazify a place all these people need to do is go somewhere else and nazi that place all up lol. They already have the banners and flags.

There is a major push against liberal democracy. Their coup seems funny now but who knows how close they can to ending American democracy.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 14 2022 06:35am

The USA was never really a true full fledged democracy in my point of view.

I agree that geopolitically for the US, a prolonged bloody war that will reduce Russia's military is good. We're not losing any soldiers and Ukrainian lives are irrelevant, no different than Afghani, Iraqi, Syrian, Yemeni, etc. Europe's economic wellbeing is also irrelevant. We own most of your politicians and most of the population has already been conditioned that personal economic sacrifices are okay and to be swallowed without question. Not sure how long this last part is going to last though, as the war becomes the daily 'normal' people are going to start getting pissed that they can't afford what they used to.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 14 2022 07:07am

Since Ukraine is part of Europe and it is being invaded how is not protecting Europe from aggression not good for Europe?

I don't understand this rejection of the value of sovereignty.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 14 2022 08:17am

You're really over estimating people's care for far away places versus what impacts them personally. The Donbas might as well be the moon for most Europeans. What they see though is over 8 dollars per gallon. What they see is galloping natural gas and food prices. These people also aren't pulling American wages of like 60+k per household. When you make 1-2k per month gross (avg of many Euro states) an extra 200-300 dollars a month to be spent more on the above things I mentioned is massive. Here's an avg wage map for you to see how much people are making in some of these places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Most people will take comfort and affordability for their families over sovereignty many miles away in places they've never been nor ever planned to go to.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 14 2022 09:27am

Gas cost that much back when I lived in Germany and that was the late 1990s. But I could also drive from one capital to another capital in 6 hours lol.

avg of many Euro states ?

Gas always was expansive and much taxed, cars are consuming less here and distances are shorter.
Public transports are developped, people have spare because they barely don't pay doctor, hospital, and various others services.
If you take lower 80% brackets i would not be suprised if they are richer than americans of the same bracket.