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May 12 2022 01:07am
Quote (Ironfister @ 12 May 2022 13:06)
Joe Biden aint warmongering. Please note that in the beginning of the war, USA offered evacuation to UA government, not arms.
So he started helping only after Ukrainians proven that they are not giving up easily and that makes sense to arm them.
Joe doesnt want the war to escalate, so my personal opinion is that he will push Ukraine into peace talks at some point, after they retake some land.
For example probably wont let UA take back Crimea and leave it in Russian hands.


He might have toned since the video below down a few notches but yes he is still kind of warmongering.
Or maybe he is not warmongering but he has to take care of the military complex vested interest.

Please note that there is midterm election in March in the States, it is imperative that the Democrats continue to hold the house and senate majority.
Which when it comes to elections well donations.



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May 12 2022 01:43am
another round in the long ongoing Russian Barbie vs Neo-McCain



I feel like they both get it wrong. Just because I don't care about Ukrainian lives, doesn't mean this war is in our nation's interests.
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May 12 2022 01:47am
Quote (Goomshill @ 12 May 2022 15:43)
another round in the long ongoing Russian Barbie vs Neo-McCain

https://i.imgur.com/64ey8KL.png

I feel like they both get it wrong. Just because I don't care about Ukrainian lives, doesn't mean this war is in our nation's interests.


:rofl:

Both are Right to be honest

:rofl:
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May 12 2022 01:49am


An American that I detest and Respect at the same time.
Kudos to him for being straight up and honest.
Not a lot of Americans are like that in our day and age.





This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on May 12 2022 01:50am
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May 12 2022 04:04am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 12 2022 12:06am)
Joe Biden aint warmongering. Please note that in the beginning of the war, USA offered evacuation to UA government, not arms.
So he started helping only after Ukrainians proven that they are not giving up easily and that makes sense to arm them.
Joe doesnt want the war to escalate, so my personal opinion is that he will push Ukraine into peace talks at some point, after they retake some land.
For example probably wont let UA take back Crimea and leave it in Russian hands.


Biden as a Senator, Vice President, and now President has a career long track record of getting the US involved militarily all over the world. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan? All approved by Biden.
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May 12 2022 04:20am
Quote (Norlander @ 12 May 2022 08:55)
Evacuating of the government is great. Really shows who they really care about. How many Ukrainian refugees were accepted in the USA?

https://www.reuters.com/world/why-isnt-us-accepting-more-ukrainian-refugees-2022-03-16/


USA are accepting 100k UA refugees this year. Not the very big amount, but still something.
UA people dont really love travel that far away across the ocean, they hope the war ends soon and come back, so usually would prefer to stay somewhere closer: Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary.
USA helps a lot in other ways, including military and intelligence support.
Also USA helps Europe with resource supplies. USA is doing their job just fine imo. Im glad its not Trump in the office, as he would do worse definitely.
Of course you can always ask for more help, but lets be realistic: every politician needs to please their own voters.
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May 12 2022 04:24am
Quote (Goomshill @ 12 May 2022 09:43)
another round in the long ongoing Russian Barbie vs Neo-McCain

https://i.imgur.com/64ey8KL.png

I feel like they both get it wrong. Just because I don't care about Ukrainian lives, doesn't mean this war is in our nation's interests.

That's the million dollar question, isn't it: would the alternative be better for the national interests of the US?

If the US and the EU hadn't armed Ukraine and just dropped them right when the fighting begun, no intelligence and recon support and so on, then Russia would have won rather easily. Hence, dropping Ukraine would embolden Russia, embolden China with regard to Taiwan and the South China Sea, tarnish the US reputation as a dependable ally, take away Ukraine as a customer market and workbench for the European economy, give Putin more leverage over the food supplies for large swaths of Africa and the Middle East and create a "successful" blueprint for Russia to tackle the Baltics next via bogus claims of an oppressed Russian minority that needs to be "liberated".

If we had allowed Putin to take Ukraine without much fight, would he have proverbially gone home and enjoyed his victory, or would he have interpreted this as a confirmation for his preconception that the West is weak, decadent and lacks resolve? Putin's statements throughout the years are completely unambiguous, he literally said that he wants to recapture - at a minimum - all of the territory of the former Soviet Union. Imho, it's pretty clear that a Russian "success" in Ukraine would not have led to lasting peace, it would have prompted Putin to test the Western commitment to the Baltics next. Imho, it makes far more sense to stop Russia's neo-imperialist desires right here right now, where Article V is not directly concerned like it would be in the Baltics. If you ask me, handing the Russians a bloody nose in Ukraine, exposing their military as the paper tiger that it is and stunting Russia's ability to replenish the equipment losses will do far more to create lasting peace than rolling over and giving the aggressor what he wants.

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May 12 2022 04:46am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 12 May 2022 18:24)
That's the million dollar question, isn't it: would the alternative be better for the national interests of the US?

If the US and the EU hadn't armed Ukraine and just dropped them right when the fighting begun, no intelligence and recon support and so on, then Russia would have won rather easily. Hence, dropping Ukraine would embolden Russia, embolden China with regard to Taiwan and the South China Sea, tarnish the US reputation as a dependable ally, take away Ukraine as a customer market and workbench for the European economy, give Putin more leverage over the food supplies for large swaths of Africa and the Middle East and create a "successful" blueprint for Russia to tackle the Baltics next via bogus claims of an oppressed Russian minority that needs to be "liberated".

If we had allowed Putin to take Ukraine without much fight, would he have proverbially gone home and enjoyed his victory, or would he have interpreted this as a confirmation for his preconception that the West is weak, decadent and lacks resolve? Putin's statements throughout the years are completely unambiguous, he literally said that he wants to recapture - at a minimum - all of the territory of the former Soviet Union. Imho, it's pretty clear that a Russian "success" in Ukraine would not have led to lasting peace, it would have prompted Putin to test the Western commitment to the Baltics next. Imho, it makes far more sense to stop Russia's neo-imperialist desires right here right now, where Article V is not directly concerned like it would be in the Baltics. If you ask me, handing the Russians a bloody nose in Ukraine, exposing their military as the paper tiger that it is and stunting Russia's ability to replenish the equipment losses will do far more to create lasting peace than rolling over and giving the aggressor what he wants.


Let me get this straight.
Taiwan's issue is similar to North and South Korea not Ukraine.
They are practically still at a ceasefire since the civil war ended.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. I hope you rectify this particular issue.
I am not saying a invasion of Taiwan is correct, it is absolutely wrong and horrendous from the Chinese part. But then again , it is a completely different issue.
In regards to South China Sea. China's ambition is similar to that of the United States in the Pacific.

In regards to Russia's Neo-imperialistic desires, they have absolutely no military nor economical clout apart from their Nukes. And if they use their nukes, even China can't help them and might even retaliate with the rest of world.
Neo- imperialistic adventurism is impractical for the Russians. They are broke and their money have been siphoned off by their leaders and cronies.

With that being said, if you want to have a good look at what Neo-imperialism , just look at the United states.
United States have around 750 military bases in 80 countries around the world.
Now that is what you call Neo-imperialism at it's finest.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on May 12 2022 04:52am
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May 12 2022 04:47am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 12 2022 05:24am)
That's the million dollar question, isn't it: would the alternative be better for the national interests of the US?

If the US and the EU hadn't armed Ukraine and just dropped them right when the fighting begun, no intelligence and recon support and so on, then Russia would have won rather easily. Hence, dropping Ukraine would embolden Russia, embolden China with regard to Taiwan and the South China Sea, tarnish the US reputation as a dependable ally, take away Ukraine as a customer market and workbench for the European economy, give Putin more leverage over the food supplies for large swaths of Africa and the Middle East and create a "successful" blueprint for Russia to tackle the Baltics next via bogus claims of an oppressed Russian minority that needs to be "liberated".

If we had allowed Putin to take Ukraine without much fight, would he have proverbially gone home and enjoyed his victory, or would he have interpreted this as a confirmation for his preconception that the West is weak, decadent and lacks resolve? Putin's statements throughout the years are completely unambiguous, he literally said that he wants to recapture - at a minimum - all of the territory of the former Soviet Union. Imho, it's pretty clear that a Russian "success" in Ukraine would not have led to lasting peace, it would have prompted Putin to test the Western commitment to the Baltics next. Imho, it makes far more sense to stop Russia's neo-imperialist desires right here right now, where Article V is not directly concerned like it would be in the Baltics. If you ask me, handing the Russians a bloody nose in Ukraine, exposing their military as the paper tiger that it is and stunting Russia's ability to replenish the equipment losses will do far more to create lasting peace than rolling over and giving the aggressor what he wants.


What does it really mean to 'embolden' Russia in this context?
Take the hypothetical. A bully keeps backing a kid into a corner in a playground. He pushes up against him, keeps intimidating him, gets him into a spot with no retreat. Eventually he's got nothing to do but hold his ground, he can't fall back any further. When that kid swings a punch back, the bully says that he can't let it stand because otherwise he'd be emboldened to keep pushing back. We spent 30 years expanding NATO across eastern europe and building a military alliance against the shia allies of Russia in the mideast. We took the Czechs, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia. Finally we overthrew the government in Ukraine and seized Russia's last buffer state.

That justification of curbing Russia's neo-imperialist desires is premised on our own neo-imperialist desires. Any attempt by Russia to restore the status quo before our hostile intervention is framed as irredentism. And worse yet, its done with an impotent approach. I said early on with this conflict we could either invest the direct NATO military confrontation needed to hold Ukraine and oppose Russia, or we could appease them, but we couldn't do both with some bastardized passive-aggressive approach. Which is exactly what Biden did. In the lead-up to the war he stood down and said we wouldn't stop Russia. Now we're prodding on the conflict just to make it as bitter and bloody as possible, with most of the casualties going to be Ukrainians. And for what? Giving the Russians a bloody nose? To what end? We're not stopping them.

This is the worst of all outcomes. We could have aligned peacefully with Russia to oppose China, seeking to resolve Ukraine diplomatically and thawing our relations. We could have stopped Russia cold and led a NATO intervention to fortify Ukraine and hold Russia at its border. We could have let Russia seize Ukraine and still maintained our hostilities but minimized the humanitarian costs and not be wasting millions of dollars of treasure, and some blood, trying to fight them in a half-assed manner. Instead Russia is emboldened, China is emboldened by the example, Biden is weak, our economy is hurting worse than Russia's, our allies are put in a geopolitical vice grip while the unaligned nations are aligning against us. The only way this thread leads to lasting peace is a peace achieved where America crumbles and our enemies are victorious.

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 12 2022 04:48am
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