d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev17667677687697705001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 39,716
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
May 9 2022 02:46am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 9 May 2022 11:30)
Okay, so I watched some live footage from the military parade in Moscow. Am I the only one who thought that Putin looked very weak and sickly, also that he was limping and generally came across like an old man?


9 more years and he will be a Sleepy Vlad
Member
Posts: 54,161
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
May 9 2022 02:51am
Quote (Goomshill @ 9 May 2022 10:45)
he looks like a 70 year old cancer patient

That's the point: we don't know if he really has cancer, it's all conjecture at this point. The way he looked today supports these rumors imho, which would be significant.
Member
Posts: 56,440
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 594,126.52
May 9 2022 03:07am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ May 9 2022 12:00am)
china are experts at getting what they want economically without firing a single shot like they did in africa

i think you made a post about china getting kicked out somewhere in africa a while ago, but overall i would say that they are pretty successful at exploiting resources without war


Yes they are *currently* experts at playing the long game.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 8 2022 11:12pm)
Afaik, overpopulated, resource-hungry China has been ogling resource-rich, underpopulated Siberia for decades. "Nice empty land you have there, be a shame if somebody annexed it."

There is a sizable Chinese minority plus many Chinese guest workers and cross-country commuters in the far east parts of Russia near the Chinese border. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Chinese used Putin's playbook against him and went "the Chinese minority in Russia is under attack by the fascist leadership, we have to step in with our military to protect our people and denazify Russia"?


this makes no sense to me. Western China is empty. they have all that space to build build build. i dont believe from a historical standpoint, cultural standpoint or interests standpoint that doing anything to russia, i.e. troops on the ground ever, is in their playbook. while western narrative is that china is overpopulated and yes they have alot of chinese ok! the technology of today and the space in china is such that even if the land is not great for building, its simply so vast that they can do w/e they want if they have the money (note: they have the money). They have more lebensraum as you might put it, as compared to other countries.



Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 9 2022 09:28am)
I think you misunderstood me, I know that the Chinese will not just send their tanks to Siberia to try and annex it. I was just shitposting about the fact that the conditions (large Chinese minority etc.) to use Putin's playbook against him would be there in Siberia.
Outright invading Siberia would only be an option if Russia once again collapsed like it did during the 90s. And even then, China would probably flood the region with Chinese people rather than Chinese tanks.

Generally speaking, China prefers economic conquest over military conquest - and Putin burning all bridges between Russia and the West means that he is turning his country into China's bitch anyway. Geopolitically, China is the big and unambiguous winner of the war in Ukraine.

The fact that China has not been invading or bombing anyone for 40 years is not as meaningful as you think it is - China has been economically conquering the world for the past 40 years after all, why would they change a modus operandi which is working like a charm? Also keep in mind that China was involved in the Vietnam war and is constantly saber-rattling with regard to Taiwan. And also that it is creating artificial islands for military bases in the South China sea and so on.


there is alot in here. i agree with most of it. but well taiwan is china's ukraine, or america's cuba or australia's solomon islands (vary degrees of weakness when comparing ok, give me a rope to hang myself).

This post was edited by ferdia on May 9 2022 03:17am
Member
Posts: 45,719
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
May 9 2022 04:36am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 9 May 2022 16:28)
I think you misunderstood me, I know that the Chinese will not just send their tanks to Siberia to try and annex it. I was just shitposting about the fact that the conditions (large Chinese minority etc.) to use Putin's playbook against him would be there in Siberia.
Outright invading Siberia would only be an option if Russia once again collapsed like it did during the 90s. And even then, China would probably flood the region with Chinese people rather than Chinese tanks.

Generally speaking, China prefers economic conquest over military conquest - and Putin burning all bridges between Russia and the West means that he is turning his country into China's bitch anyway. Geopolitically, China is the big and unambiguous winner of the war in Ukraine.



The fact that China has not been invading or bombing anyone for 40 years is not as meaningful as you think it is - China has been economically conquering the world for the past 40 years after all, why would they change a modus operandi which is working like a charm? Also keep in mind that China was involved in the Vietnam war and is constantly saber-rattling with regard to Taiwan. And also that it is creating artificial islands for military bases in the South China sea and so on.


Creating Artificial island is actually in China's playbook to choke Taiwan, South Korea and Japan if one day USA intend to trigger sanctions or any sort of aggression on China, while we are talking right here there is already some updates on US strategy on China.
Quad was created as some sort of a Mini Nato against China in the East, mainly Japan , Australia, US and India.
Due to India's position with Russia and her unwillingness to follow US lead , America have decided to pull in a new member which is South Korea.
On the other hand we have AUKUS that is already establish to handle the Chinese "Expansion" in the pacific.

I would say China rise in using soft power only started about 10 to 15 years back at best. They were still eating tree bark 30 to 40 years back except for those major major cities.
China is taking a page out of the US playbook when in comes to economically conquering the world, but they are studying the US very carefully and the mistakes that they make especially when it comes to interfering other country's political situation.
The wars that the US did in

Vietnam
Afghanistan
Iraq
Yugoslavia
Libya
Syria etc

and Her invasion of
Panama
Grenada
etc

Have taught the Chinese very invaluable lessons on what to do and not what to do.

I don't think China can turn Russia into her bitch per say, China depends a lot on Russia's energy. She has no reason invade Russia's territories as it will be unwise to mess with someone like Russia or US who has 6000 or more Nukes each.
They will just play around with what they can with economy and while doing that , they are improving their defense as quickly as possible.

Even that being said , it is pretty much known that China's military capabilities cannot surpass the US or even Russia as she is at least 30 years behind.
Member
Posts: 45,719
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
May 9 2022 04:40am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 9 May 2022 16:30)
Okay, so I watched some live footage from the military parade in Moscow. Am I the only one who thought that Putin looked very weak and sickly, also that he was limping and generally came across like an old man?


He don't look too good, and if something happens to him , we better pray we don't get a second one who is 10 times more hardcore than he is, there is a chance though.
Member
Posts: 50,882
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,846.00
May 9 2022 04:43am
I think that concerns over China's potential annexation of more land are really stretching far into an uncertain future. Climate change will make large chunks of Russia (and Canada) into prime real estate. But even if territorial gambits about artificial islands and projecting force in the south pacific are on the table, China aiming at Russia really truly is not. Maybe 50-100 years from now we'll be wondering about that, but I can't imagine a scenario where China angles for northward expansion in our lifetime. It wouldn't even be hospitable land yet under the most doomsday scenarios of climate change.
Member
Posts: 4,621
Joined: Jan 30 2021
Gold: 751.50
May 9 2022 05:04am
Quote (ferdia @ May 9 2022 11:07am)
Yes they are *currently* experts at playing the long game.



this makes no sense to me. Western China is empty. they have all that space to build build build. i dont believe from a historical standpoint, cultural standpoint or interests standpoint that doing anything to russia, i.e. troops on the ground ever, is in their playbook. while western narrative is that china is overpopulated and yes they have alot of chinese ok! the technology of today and the space in china is such that even if the land is not great for building, its simply so vast that they can do w/e they want if they have the money (note: they have the money). They have more lebensraum as you might put it, as compared to other countries.

https://i.imgur.com/Od88EYk.jpg



there is alot in here. i agree with most of it. but well taiwan is china's ukraine, or america's cuba or australia's solomon islands (vary degrees of weakness when comparing ok, give me a rope to hang myself).


they definitely play the long game while the west self destructs

western china is pretty desolate, that green area is mostly wasteland, desert and very high altitude

you dont really want to have big settlements there
Member
Posts: 56,440
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 594,126.52
May 9 2022 05:08am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ May 9 2022 12:04pm)
they definitely play the long game while the west self destructs

western china is pretty desolate, that green area is mostly wasteland, desert and very high altitude

you dont really want to have big settlements there


its like greenland. sub optimal but with technology who knows what will happen.
Member
Posts: 45,719
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
May 9 2022 05:09am
Quote (ferdia @ 9 May 2022 19:08)
its like greenland. sub optimal but with technology who knows what will happen.


there is a lot of untapped resources there....
Member
Posts: 28,883
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
May 9 2022 06:58am
I'm starting to believe that outside the Donbas, Russian expansion may be over, they're really not pushing in the south and are just happy having taken Kherson as west most territory. At this point there's enough evidence to suggest that both Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be broken off from Ukraine. In the north around Kharkiv the Russians are slowly giving up towns, IMO to me this front was always just a distraction so as to spread Ukrainian forces having to defend multiple fronts.

Pretty much the bulk of the war is raging in the Donbas region. The west for weeks has been broadcasting another mass Russia offensive which hasn't come yet. I think the reason it's not coming is it'll be extremely costly lives and equipment wise so Russia is content with smaller scale offensive operations while having their artillery grind Ukrainian defensive positions slowly. That was the mistake of their 1st phase, underestimating Ukrainian will and preparedness to fight, this time they are not making that mistake, so they turned from a blitzkrieg to a siege type war. People also have to understand that the Donbas region has been heavily fortified and prepared for war for like 5 years, so there's no easy and fast way to dislodge the Ukrainian army here.

If you look at the current map they are slowly poking holes from various directions in Ukrainian lines. By doing that it creates potential flanks for Ukrainian defenses, so then the Ukrainians have to be very careful as they can get encircled and cut off. I've heard of tactical retreats from the Sievierodonestk and Lysychansk to prevent this encirclement but so far that's just unconfirmed rumors on twitter.
Ultimately I think the goal for Russia is to basically seize everything from Yzium down, basically the rest of Donestk oblast. Once that happens forward territorial operations will probably stop.

https://liveuamap.com/

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 9 2022 07:09am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev17667677687697705001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll