You tell me. I'd like to hear your opinion on how many countries we've invaded.


Unless those countries like having sanctions placed on them, and losing all of their money. Ya, sure....can't tell countries what to do. lol

True, but look at how different the response is with nuclear powers vs non nuclear. Sanctions are one thing, but you can't coerce nuclear powers with a show of force like you can non-nuclear countries. Rather than forcing them to do what you want you are instead coercing them and making it in their interest to follow a certain path. That is not the same as forcing a country to adhere. The history of Sanctions is not one of forcing countries to change their actions...the best hope is to ignite the domestic base to change the direction of the leadership/state, usually there is enough tit for tat that no real change occurs. This time however, it is not just one country or a small group of countries, it is the most technologically sophisticated states with the largest GDP per person who are doing this all at one target. So while I understand what you mean, it really isn't telling them what to do, more just changing the incentive structure to encourage them to follow suit.

Only can work if there are no super powers bucking the trend. Otherwise it just draws lines in the sand and increases the probability of military conflict. China alone would be sufficient to keep Russia from collapse, but there's a lot more than China leaning on Russia's side or staying neutral and willing to trade with Russia. India, Israel, Iraq, Iran, Mexico, and varied South American and African countries have all refrained from joining in on sanctions. Western propaganda suggests Russia is alone. The reality is quite different.

Russia can collapse and still be Russia. I know it sounds kind of funny but their culture transcends their current government. I know you know that too.

But I don't think Russia will collapse. They are experienced in command economy and internal currency that is worthless outside of the state if they need to resort to that.

It is just amazing to me that Putin alone decided to piss away such quality of life increases he has worked so hard for in terms of his population.

I bet he is banking on a certain Republican foreign asset president winning the election and helping legitimize his annexation of Ukraine like he did Crimea by removing all sanctions and normalizing relations.

This post was edited by Skinned on Mar 3 2022 04:52pm

a certain Republican foreign asset president <- who dat? not america, not china, not european, im lost ? there is no way for a foreign power to legitimize his annexation of Ukriane, but that this point does not mean that he wont do that. unless you count silence as consent.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 3 2022 04:58pm

Ah yes I know exactly what you mean, I was in Russia During Victory Day once and there were more USSR flags being waved than Russian ones, but the state apparatus can change drastically. For instance the Republic of China and The Peoples Republic of China are the same geographical location, with the same people (more or less) living inside of it but with completely different state structure and people controlling the power. So while I agree they will always be Ethnic Russians, it doesn't mean their state structure will be the Russian Federation. They could become The Republic of Russia or another form of state structure, that will depend on their domestic power dynamics which I am much to ignorant to speak on. Look at what happened in Russia post WW1/WW2/Collapse of the USSR.



I believe he is referring to what I fear for as well. What happens come the next US federal election (will a candidate argue to reduce sanctions to reduce oil prices!?!? Typically people care more about their own consumption than foreign wars)...as this is a long run operation, it will not necessarily be over in 3 years.

This post was edited by Mossom on Mar 3 2022 05:12pm

American inconsistency has quite a bit to do with the situation I recon. It's hard to trust what the US says when policy can do a full 180 every 4 years.

It does seem like Putin has bit off more than he can chew, but I think the same is true for NATO. The big problem for the West is that such hyped up outrage can only persist for so long. A few years at most. People will naturally be dragged back to more important things to their lives after a time. Whether Ukraine is independent or Russia's vassal matters nothing to the vast majority of humans on Earth, provided it doesn't spark WW3. I think that rather than banking on any particular presidential election, Putin is banking on Western exhaustion winning the day.

I also have a suspicion that Russia is being played. Provided nuclear war doesn't break out, China gains significantly every day that goes by. As democracies, neither the US nor Russia can play the long game. Even though Putin has had extraordinary levels of success in elections, it wasn't long ago that he was expected to stop running for election in the near future. He isn't a young man and he has limited ability to influence the country long term.

But as a dictatorship, China can play a game with decades of benchmarks to hit. Even if the Chinese individual leadership changes, the party remains. It has demonstrated more patience than any other major power in history. Everything happening right now is playing right into their hands.

As a Muslim this is the beginning of the Malhama, hope your prepared for the all out civil in America after the SHTF can you feel it right now?
Ukraine has been murdering its disenfranchised citizens (they don't even get to vote) in the eastern part of the country for the last 8 years.
You can look at this attitude in all of the shootings in Kiev this past week, where the Ukranian regulars/militants claim with baited breath "they were saboteurs" or "we thought they were saboteurs"
When they really fuck up and murder a family or children they have claimed Russians did it, in a part of the country where there currently were no Russian forces.
This gets overlooked by western media, globalhomo corporations, and NPC's. To the same propaganda is repeated by them over and over again you should know by now who the bad guys are.
The United States foreign policy created this situation completely by itself.

Traitors aren't disenfranchised citizens. Traitors that take up arms are militant and therefore open to be killed.

They can blame Russia for every accidental death because they wouldn't be in fear of saboteurs if Russia wasn't invading.

Ukraine was doing fine letting it's traitors and nazi element kill each other on the edge of nowhere, then they started talking to the UN and got invaded.

Russia was fine letting the traitors get killed for 8 years right up until they seen the government trying to join the UN. They aren't liberators they are invaders.

You mean NATO, your opinion is worthless if you couldn't distinguish between the two.
But it would be a good point could be in part.
Russia has only been saying there will be consequences if Ukraine was admitted to NATO for the last 15 years.
NATO doesn't want Ukraine, NATO is almost fully paid by the United States, Did the US accept the USSR putting missiles in Cuba?
Didn't think so.