Well, if Russia stole Ukrainian industry in Crimea then I feel sorry for your sources of information.
Billions spent on Afghanistan and Iraq. Any result? Dead bodies in three layers. USA trained mujahedins to fight against USSR in 80's then realized them as a threat, got rekt and now calling them terrorist state. Who watches the Watchmen Who terrorizes the terrorists?

This post was edited by Norlander on May 3 2022 12:55pm

This is not about Western Democracy in this situation with Russia.
Now let me get this straight.

This war is Anglo Saxon Versus Russia.

Yes a lot of country have democracy and capitalism.
Whats the point of having a "Democracy" when the the most powerful democratic and proponent of human rights country in history threaten you with military actions, sanctions or Geo Political blackmail just because your democratic elected government decided to do business with someone else?

No, but it still indicates that the Western invaders in these places were more benevolent than the Soviets/Russians.


The irony and the massive, massive shades of grey are not lost on me.

But no, the West never dismantled and stole entire factories from places they conquered while the Soviet Union did it all the time and Russia is doing it again in Ukraine right now.
When cultural assets were stolen, it was mostly the actions of individual soldiers rather than a deliberate action coming from the military or politcal leadership.
The West also never intentionally triggered famines in conquered countries the way the Russians did during the Holodomor, intentionally targetted residential areas as part of psychology warfare like Russia is doing in Ukraine, Syria and Chechnia, or quashed peaceful uprisings with tanks like Russia did on countless occasions.


The West has lots of blood on its hands as well and has inflicted a lot of pain and death on other countries out of selfish motives - but the Russians are still objectively a lot worse.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 3 2022 12:59pm

Ukrainian saying: Your own shit always smells like raspberries.

Are you sure ?

Better make sure before I pull something shocking out.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on May 3 2022 01:01pm

Go ahead, find me something the West did which was more deadly or more evil than what Russia did to Ukraine during the Holodomor. (Millions of starvations as a result of a state-planned, intentional famine.)

Not Russia, USSR did it. It did the same to Russians.
Genociding native Americans, is it a good example for you? Leave their land.

This post was edited by Norlander on May 3 2022 01:09pm

Here is just one account

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%931878

Here is a quote

" Historian Mike Davis, in Late Victorian Holocausts (2002), points out that many who joined the East India Company were schooled at Haileybury, where one Reverend Thomas Malthus had taught as Professor of History and Political Economy. Malthusian economics, convenient interpretations of Adam Smith, and social-Darwinism combined to form an ideology that killed 5.5 million Indians only in the British territories between 1876 and 1878 and anything between 6.1 and 10.3 million people in all of India. The Famine Commission justified Lord Lytton’s reasoning, Davis writes, saying that if help was meted out during the famine, people would assume that the poor were entitled to it at all times. British trade could not take a backseat for the sake of Indian lives. :

An interesting example, props for that.

Still, I am talking about the modern, US-led West, not the colonial era. Also note that the Holodomor killed some 3-5 million Ukrainians at a time when the country's population was 31 million while the Great Famine of India killed some 5-10 million Indians at a time when the country's population was around 240 million. Simply put, the Holodomor was a far more severe and deadly famine than India's in 1876.




Russia is the official successor of the USSR according to international law. And since the USSR was dominated by Russia, the legal and moral burden for its crimes also fall onto Russia.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 3 2022 01:21pm

150 years ago...

The Great Famine may havepartially been caused by an intense drought resulting in crop failure in the Deccan Plateau.It was part of a larger pattern of drought and crop failure across India, China, South America and parts of Africa caused by an interplay between a strong El Niño and an active Indian Ocean Dipole that led to between19 and 50 million deaths. The regular export of grain by the colonial government continued; during the famine, the viceroy, Lord Robert Bulwer-Lytton, oversaw the export to England of a record 6.4 million hundredweight (320,000 tons) of wheat, which made the region more vulnerable.

So we can't know exactly : holomodor is 3.3–3.9 million so it's very possible you lose it.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on May 3 2022 01:20pm