Quote (ofthevoid @ May 2 2022 03:04pm)

Honestly, I'm not really sure tbh. It's a difficult question, there are a lot of historical examples we can look and try to dissect whether it's unjustified secession or a fight for freedom and self determination. North vs South, England vs Scotland, England vs Ireland, Canada vs Quebec, China and Taiwan and on and on.

Oftentimes the argument that wins is the one based on who's the winner writing the history right? Most of us in the west probably view that the Yankees stomping out the south was a good, but how much of that is based on the fact that they owned slaves and that history was written by the victorious north? Who knows. I get kind of annoyed when I see double standards though.

Quote (ofthevoid @ May 2 2022 01:04pm)

Honestly, I'm not really sure tbh. It's a difficult question, there are a lot of historical examples we can look and try to dissect whether it's unjustified secession or a fight for freedom and self determination. North vs South, England vs Scotland, England vs Ireland, Canada vs Quebec, China and Taiwan and on and on.

Oftentimes the argument that wins is the one based on who's the winner writing the history right? Most of us in the west probably view that the Yankees stomping out the south was a good, but how much of that is based on the fact that they owned slaves and that history was written by the victorious north? Who knows. I get kind of annoyed when I see double standards though.

Quote (ofthevoid @ May 2 2022 10:04pm)

Honestly, I'm not really sure tbh. It's a difficult question, there are a lot of historical examples we can look and try to dissect whether it's unjustified secession or a fight for freedom and self determination. North vs South, England vs Scotland, England vs Ireland, Canada vs Quebec, China and Taiwan and on and on.

Oftentimes the argument that wins is the one based on who's the winner writing the history right? Most of us in the west probably view that the Yankees stomping out the south was a good, but how much of that is based on the fact that they owned slaves and that history was written by the victorious north? Who knows. I get kind of annoyed when I see double standards though.

Quote (Ironfister @ 2 May 2022 21:22)

You mean support given after first Russia attack on Ukraine?
So even after Russia attacked, you still dont agree that Ukraine can defend itself?
You dont understand Russia. They dont need a reason, they will always find one, make up some fake story about Nazis or biological labs or anything.
You also dont understand, that while Donbas people speak Russian language, they consider themselves Ukrainian, especially since the first Russia attack in 2014.
Dont you remember than on 24th february Russia attacked Ukraine from all sides at once? So it didnt look like they were interested only in Donbas.
Tens of thousands could have been saved, but tens of millions could be lost as a result of capitulations. If not hundreds of millions.
This is true that Moldova people are poor, but they would like to join Romania rather than Russia evil empire.

Quote (thundercock @ May 2 2022 04:37pm)

My stance is pretty simple. Both sides have to agree on the exit terms. If one side doesn't and a war breaks out, may the victor take the spoils. Sure, some causes are more worthy than others and there may be international ramifications due to spheres of influence, trade, etc. but I think these things need to be hashed out with blood.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ May 2 2022 04:40pm)

slavery in the context of the civil war in the states is just good vs bad framing

in reality nobody in the north (or south or anywhere) gave a shit about black slaves and it took another century for them to get equal rights

we could talk about the modern narrative, if the union had truly liberated everyone, but that is simply not correct

the reality was: back to the plantation, but this time for 1 penny a year, congrats

the civil war was a conflict of two different economical systems in the same state and about power, state rights, taxes etc

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ May 2 2022 01:40pm)

slavery in the context of the civil war in the states is just good vs bad framing

in reality nobody in the north (or south or anywhere) gave a shit about black slaves and it took another century for them to get equal rights

we could talk about the modern narrative, if the union had truly liberated everyone, but that is simply not correct

the reality was: back to the plantation, but this time for 1 penny a year, congrats

the civil war was a conflict of two different economical systems in the same state and about power, state rights, taxes etc

Quote (ofthevoid @ 2 May 2022 20:34)

No lol, you sound stupid saying that. What does it mean that hundreds of millions would be lost? Lost to what? Like they would be dead or slaves or what? Look at the central Asian ex-soviet countries that are still friendly with Russia, what exactly are they losing?

Quote (ofthevoid @ May 2 2022 01:49pm)

This is like never the case though. Should we never have fought the war for independence and just went the Canada/Australia route? Idk. Ultimately might makes right.

Quote (thundercock @ May 2 2022 12:48pm)

Out of curiosity, do you think that the Confederacy was correct to secede from the Union and that they had that right to what they did? Obviously that doesn't mean you support slavery. I'm just talking about the secession part.

Quote (Nibthebarb @ May 2 2022 01:57pm)

Correct, incorrect, right, wrong, all irrelevant.

The American Revolution was correct because it won.
The Southern secession was incorrect because it lost.

Winners write the history books