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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Officer Jeronimo Yanez Found Not Guilty > Shot And Killed Philando Castile
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#71
Jun 23 2017 06:08pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 23 Jun 2017 23:16)
You should really try that some time. Try driving away from the officer and see what happens



The officer put himself in danger by stopping him in the first place. Traffic stops are the most dangerous routine police duty, killing more officers than domestic situations or disturbance calls.
Its not for the court to decide whether its "good judgment" for the cop to reach in through the window. The moment the driver tried to shut his door and take off with a cop's arm in his window, he was putting the cop's life in immediate jeopardy.
Try a hypothetical scenario. Say that a policeman is directing traffic in the street and sees something illegal in a vehicle and orders them to stop. When the driver doesn't comply, the cop stands in front of the car and holds out his arm. The driver hits the gas and tries to run him down, and the cop opens fire and kills the driver. Is it the cop's fault that he made a judgment call of "standing in front of the vehicle" which put him in harm's way? Well in this case, it was his arm's way harm's way, at risk of being dragged and/or run over.


The difference is the hypothetical scenario is that aiming a car at someone and hitting the gas is an attempt to take someone's life.
Shutting a door and driving away is more an attempt of saving ones own life. With the fast trigger response, that's not an unlikely scenario.

I'd still say it's murder/manslaughter. I don't see a valid self defense argument to be made that shooting was needed to safe his life.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Jun 23 2017 06:12pm
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#72
Jun 23 2017 07:12pm
You don't think the cops life was in danger as the guy sped away with the cop's arm in the vehicle? You don't have to be in front of a car to get run over, they have back tires too
Trying to escape while putting the cops life in jeopardy is the same thing either way.
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#73
Jun 23 2017 07:27pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 23 2017 05:16pm)
You should really try that some time. Try driving away from the officer and see what happens



The officer put himself in danger by stopping him in the first place. Traffic stops are the most dangerous routine police duty, killing more officers than domestic situations or disturbance calls.
Its not for the court to decide whether its "good judgment" for the cop to reach in through the window. The moment the driver tried to shut his door and take off with a cop's arm in his window, he was putting the cop's life in immediate jeopardy.
Try a hypothetical scenario. Say that a policeman is directing traffic in the street and sees something illegal in a vehicle and orders them to stop. When the driver doesn't comply, the cop stands in front of the car and holds out his arm. The driver hits the gas and tries to run him down, and the cop opens fire and kills the driver. Is it the cop's fault that he made a judgment call of "standing in front of the vehicle" which put him in harm's way? Well in this case, it was his arm's way harm's way, at risk of being dragged and/or run over.


I've stood in the street and directed traffic. I can now kill people at whim, right?

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 23 2017 08:12pm)
You don't think the cops life was in danger as the guy sped away with the cop's arm in the vehicle? You don't have to be in front of a car to get run over, they have back tires too
Trying to escape while putting the cops life in jeopardy is the same thing either way.


The cop grabbed the car, the car didn't grab the cop.
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#74
Jun 23 2017 07:43pm
Quote
I've stood in the street and directed traffic. I can now kill people at whim, right?


If someone tries to run you down? Sure.

Quote (Santara @ Jun 23 2017 07:27pm)
The cop grabbed the car, the car didn't grab the cop.


The driver made the first move. The cop made a split second judgment call and tried to grab the wheel. The driver tried to take off and drag the cop.
Sure with all the benefits of hindsight and scrutinizing every movement its easy to criticize him for grabbing into the car- but with a half a second to react, you might have done the same
It doesn't matter. What matters is what happened after- the driver tried to take off with the cop in tow, and then cop has every reason to be in fear for his life and be justified using deadly force
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#75
Jun 23 2017 07:55pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 23 2017 03:31pm)
Yeah, I realized that I originally got that information from a libertarian website, so it likely wasn't credible so I made an edit.


Once you see quotes from the articles of confederation RUN!
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#76
Jun 23 2017 10:00pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 23 2017 07:43pm)
If someone tries to run you down? Sure.



The driver made the first move. The cop made a split second judgment call and tried to grab the wheel. The driver tried to take off and drag the cop.
Sure with all the benefits of hindsight and scrutinizing every movement its easy to criticize him for grabbing into the car- but with a half a second to react, you might have done the same
It doesn't matter. What matters is what happened after- the driver tried to take off with the cop in tow, and then cop has every reason to be in fear for his life and be justified using deadly force


Driving within 2 feet of a cop is now a reason for him to shoot if he does something stupid that puts himself in danger.
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#77
Jun 24 2017 06:53am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 23 2017 11:00pm)
Driving within 2 feet of a cop is now a reason for him to shoot if he does something stupid that puts himself in danger.


If it was a real Cincinnati police officer the guy wouldn't have been shot. Our police force is pretty professional and being a large city everyone wants to be part of it so we get the best and the rest trickle down to the smaller surrounding towns in the form of local police departments and university police.

Curious to see what happens tonight. I expect peaceful demonstrations and disruptions to public life.
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#78
Jun 24 2017 07:16am
Latino cops likes to shoot black guys
Not guilty is not guilty
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#79
Jun 24 2017 07:19pm
No riots. Pride was great.
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#80
Jun 25 2017 05:18am
Quote (Goomshill @ 24 Jun 2017 02:43)
If someone tries to run you down? Sure.



The driver made the first move. The cop made a split second judgment call and tried to grab the wheel. The driver tried to take off and drag the cop.
Sure with all the benefits of hindsight and scrutinizing every movement its easy to criticize him for grabbing into the car- but with a half a second to react, you might have done the same
It doesn't matter. What matters is what happened after- the driver tried to take off with the cop in tow, and then cop has every reason to be in fear for his life and be justified using deadly force


A black family with a little girl in a car. Is enough reason for a cop to feel scared enough to pull the trigger when he hears the word "gun". The officer fucked up, he took a life with no reason.

As for the guy driving away: As a cop, you're getting paid to put your life in jeopardy for the greater good. Sometimes that means trying to stop someone wanting to drive away.
The word jeopardy being used to validate a murder is just too easy. The best defense of this cop had, was to not shoot the guy behind the wheel, but increase the distance between the car an him.
A cop pulling the trigger should be the last resort. And it should be aimed to incapacitate, not kill someone. Lethal force should only to be used if it indeed saves your life.

For now, cops get a free pass in these cases because he is black and thus a criminal, and the cop felt scared..

That's bullshit.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Jun 25 2017 05:26am
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