d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev16926936946956965001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Apr 27 2022 03:19pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 27 Apr 2022 21:17)
We do, all the time


"we" ? You and Trump ?

Remember this ?
https://ec.europa.eu/info/digital-services-act-ensuring-safe-and-accountable-online-environment_en

Quote (ferdia @ 27 Apr 2022 21:19)
That is not on the table, else they would have taken the capital.


Russia gave up, but probably still tries to assassinate him.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 27 Apr 2022 21:17)
I am just trying to lighten up the mood with the Texan accent.


You know France refused to participate in Iraq war in 2003 right ? Or that 60 years ago France refused to actively support Israel agressive policty in middle east ?
There's alot of examples like this, for different countries. This is also the definition of "free world."

Repeat after me: "free world" :rofl:

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Apr 27 2022 03:22pm
Member
Posts: 56,385
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 579,208.49
Apr 27 2022 03:21pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Apr 27 2022 10:03pm)
I don't think you see my point.
When I say the West accepts, is when USA say stop.
You can have 180 countries voting against Russia doesn't mean anything.

They have to follow the boss. And who is their boss.

As of now USA is having a meeting with all their 40 partners to discuss the Ukraine issue.

This will happen as follow.

USA : Alrighty boys, who is going to give weapons and what weapons and who is going to give money etc etc.
Everyone else : Raise their hands , I will do this, do that and etc etc etc.
USA : Alrighty boys, this is the timeline. Ok Poland you do this, France you do this, Germans you do this, UK my bro mate, get your SAS troops in. Alright Japan, your weapon sucks , now chip in 5 to 6 billion USD etc etc
USA : Let's screw this muthafuka over big time, he is my number one enemy........I mean our Number one military threat, just look at Ukraine, sure you boys dont wanna end up the same howdy !


i dont disagree with this, pardner.
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Apr 27 2022 03:25pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 28 Apr 2022 05:15)
Your view is a grotesque, US doesn't say "boys", sounds like you think it works like in China commanding its provinces or something like this.
There's a very common ground and US is the biggest actor in military. There's incredible benefits for EU & US to stop Russia being agressive.

Btw I doubt all the countries you listed will start to have a significant trade with Russia at the detrimental of their relation with the whole "west"...


Alright here is where I think you might be mistaken about detrimental with the relationship to the West.
First thing first Countries and Sovereigns are very intelligent.
China and India total population almost 3 Billion.
Resources, products, oil and gas security with Mid East, trades with Asean.
South America products.

I will give one very obvious example in recent month.

USA "allows" the perks of India trading directly with Russia without repercussions , as long as she stands on her side when USA wants to deal with China, henceforth "QUAD".
But the rest of USA allies better not. Japan is fuming over this right now.

And you think with Those country I mention above that still trade with Russia using Ruble and Cryto , unless you want to sanction all those countries.
As technology progress and oil and gas security is more important than ever for developing countries. We are extremely interdependent to everyone else whether you like it or not.

Hence in my personal opinion , sanctions doesn't work.
If it did,
Iran would have bowed, North Korea would have bowed, Cubans would have bowed, imagine so a small tiny country right next to the USA have not bowed. But the Cubans are practicing some excellent diplomacy lately and they are a harmless threat so the Americans don't really care.
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Apr 27 2022 03:28pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 28 Apr 2022 05:19)
"we" ? You and Trump ?

Remember this ?
https://ec.europa.eu/info/digital-services-act-ensuring-safe-and-accountable-online-environment_en



Russia gave up, but probably still tries to assassinate him.



You know France refused to participate in Iraq war in 2003 right ? Or that 60 years ago France refused to actively support Israel agressive policty in middle east ?
There's alot of examples like this, for different countries. This is also the definition of "free world."

Repeat after me: "free world" :rofl:


No No No , it's not free world, USA still have to give France a tiny bit of face even if France doesn't participate with the USA.
I am sure you know history and you know the reason why. For this I give props to the Americans because they didn't forget about France, but it was a major thing the French did for the Americans.

Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Apr 27 2022 03:35pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 27 Apr 2022 21:25)
Alright here is where I think you might be mistaken about detrimental with the relationship to the West.
First thing first Countries and Sovereigns are very intelligent.
China and India total population almost 3 Billion.
Resources, products, oil and gas security with Mid East, trades with Asean.
South America products.

I will give one very obvious example in recent month.

USA "allows" the perks of India trading directly with Russia without repercussions , as long as she stands on her side when USA wants to deal with China, henceforth "QUAD".
But the rest of USA allies better not. Japan is fuming over this right now.

And you think with Those country I mention above that still trade with Russia using Ruble and Cryto , unless you want to sanction all those countries.
As technology progress and oil and gas security is more important than ever for developing countries. We are extremely interdependent to everyone else whether you like it or not.

Hence in my personal opinion , sanctions doesn't work.
If it did,
Iran would have bowed, North Korea would have bowed, Cubans would have bowed, imagine so a small tiny country right next to the USA have not bowed. But the Cubans are practicing some excellent diplomacy lately and they are a harmless threat so the Americans don't really care.


India and even China are not taking the risk to help Putin, this is just too risky, they simply too much vulnerable for that economically. This war is happening too soon for counter balance.
India and even China will also not take the risk because Putin is already 70 years old with potential health issue (Maybe they know better than us) so helping him 3 years to sustain an unknown future is not acceptable for such giant countries which are already very busy tring they keep themselves in a single piece.

Sanctions are working precisely in this case; because Russia has to maintain constant conventional military pressure at high cost in a -large- country: Basically Putin cannot occupy the whole Ukrain so he will have to sustain his positions until all his ressources are wasted. He was not expecting such resiliance IMO.
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Apr 27 2022 03:37pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 28 Apr 2022 05:35)
India and even China are not taking the risk to help Putin, this is just too risky, they simply too much vulnerable for that economically. This war is happening too soon for counter balance.
India and even China will also not take the risk because Putin is already 70 years old with potential health issue (Maybe they know better than us) so helping him 3 years to sustain an unknown future is not acceptable for such giant countries which are already very busy tring they keep themselves in a single piece.

Sanctions are working precisely in this case; because Russia has to maintain constant conventional military pressure at high cost in a -large- country: Basically Putin cannot occupy the whole Ukrain so he will have to sustain his positions until all his ressources are wasted. He was not expecting such resiliance IMO.


They won't outright help Putin you are right (Militarily) (Maybe sneakily), but at the same time they won't let Putin be ousted and they won't let Russia be screwed to the ground. As a matter of fact, I am sure Putin have contingency plans as to who will take over him if something happens. And this person might be worst.
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Apr 27 2022 03:53pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 27 Apr 2022 21:28)
No No No , it's not free world, USA still have to give France a tiny bit of face even if France doesn't participate with the USA.
I am sure you know history and you know the reason why. For this I give props to the Americans because they didn't forget about France, but it was a major thing the French did for the Americans.


USA and France are allies for things like Press Freedom, Free Speech, Equal Rights etc... It's not pefectly implemented but these values are pretty strong.
You are tring to divide.
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Apr 27 2022 03:55pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 28 Apr 2022 05:53)
USA and France are allies for things like Press Freedom, Free Speech, Equal Rights etc... It's not pefectly implemented but these values are pretty strong.
You are tring to divide.


No not that.
If it wasn't for France, USA may not have gotten her independence from Britain.
So there are somethings that France might do, when in comes to " liberation " whereby the French think it is not right. The USA might just turn a little bit and say it's fine. i.e Iraq
Member
Posts: 2,578
Joined: Aug 1 2004
Gold: 0.69
Apr 27 2022 04:03pm
Quote (Santara @ 27 Apr 2022 15:42)
The only thing Russia "gives up" in this negotiation is "stop killing people." That should be a precondition to entering talks.


Ya its pretty crazy but anybody who knows anything about Russia or Putin knows this is par for the course. Putin is an obvious dictator with hawkish tendencies but Russia isnt a helpless victim, Russ has been doing this type of thing forever. Chechnya and then Georgia and then Ukraine in 2014 theyve used all the same tactics and logistics.
Member
Posts: 39,670
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
Apr 27 2022 04:05pm
Quote (-StoNed- @ 28 Apr 2022 01:03)
Ya its pretty crazy but anybody who knows anything about Russia or Putin knows this is par for the course. Putin is an obvious dictator with hawkish tendencies but Russia isnt a helpless victim, Russ has been doing this type of thing forever. Chechnya and then Georgia and then Ukraine in 2014 theyve used all the same tactics and logistics.


Especially Chechnya. It wasn't the part of Russia, right?
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev16926936946956965001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll