It's called a peace treaty. You get peace and presumably a release of all POWs. And maybe even a non aggression or some kind of lasting agreement to ensure peace going forward.

Chopdix would gladly do the job. I will be the cameraman while Saucisson6000 will be jerking off his saucisson. Anyone else wanna join the party?

I don't think that they think Russian decision-makers are stupid. Imho, goom and a few others are of the opinion that sacrificing Ukraine would be the most convenient outcome of this conflict - and more importantly, that such an outcome would bring peace and stability to the region, rather than embolden Putin to seek further conquests.

Since this is a glaringly immoral and cowardly position to take and they subconsciously know it, they're trying to come up with all these tortured, contrived justifications for why Ukraine sucks anyway, why the situation is so dangerous that backing off would be prudent, or why Ukraine is run by an illegitimate regime and so full of nazis that they deserve what's happening to them anyway.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 26 2022 04:29pm

I dont disagree with this, but Russia is likely to start considering its options if the west continues to send weapons. Russia has adopted the same policy as USA - i.e. you can boarder us but just dont be our enemy. we went over this previously in the topic. Monroe Doctrine, and the various videos'.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 26 2022 04:43pm

"Don't attack Russia and Russia won't attacks us" isn't that hard of a logic to follow.
If we decided to nuke Moscow, the Russians would fire retaliatory nukes. Is it so insane for us to say "We shouldn't nuke Russia first". Does it become "Russia is free to do whatever they want, because we won't nuke them"?

We're not talking about scenarios where Russia is attacking NATO in a first strike, we're talking about NATO attacking Russia and Russia retaliating. Which has been basically the entire pre, during and post-cold war theme and the story of Putin's foreign policy. We plant first strike missiles in Turkey, they plant first strike missiles in Cuba. We expel diplomats, they expel diplomats. We meddle in their elections, they meddle in our elections. We seize control of Ukraine by way of a coup, they seize control of Ukraine by way of an invasion. We attack the Russian mainland- what comes next? Fill in that line


The terrible and unthinkable outcome of status quo pre-2014 being restored.
The actually immoral and cowardly position to take is the one where we end up at that exact same end point, except we killed hundreds of thousands of people and displaced millions along the way in a war we were unwilling to fight but happy to encourage others to fight on our behalf. Its not like we just had this same scenario unfold in Syria or anything, not 10 years ago. It doesn't take the grand prophet nostradamus to foretell how America's foreign policy blunders end when they keep repeating the same notes over and over again. Who is in control of Syria right now? Bashar al-Assad, backed by Russia. Well jiminy cricket, remind me what Kerry and Hilldog had to say during the warmongering phase of that conflict. At least I hope this time we don't complete the full circle by winding up helping Russia kill the Nazis we're arming right now, I don't think that's likely lmao.

Engaging in profoundly stupid foreign policy that creates unnecessary massacres and lengthy humanitarian disasters, while proudly thumping our chests about how noble and highminded we are. Jeopardizing our own national interests and geopolitical standing (and always in a way that benefits China), and in the end we have nothing to show for it. But anyone who calls it out is a traitor, a coward, dirty Russian lover! All that's left is to repeat the spectacle of McCarthyists trying to prosecute a geriatric WEB Du Bois for being a russia sympathizer, defended in court by albert einstein. If we're going to play mad libs with cyclical history, I hope its a 94 year old Noam Chomsky being prosecuted by Merrick Garland and defended in court by Kanye

It's an utilitarian position, one that would have led to literally everyone suffering less. Thousands of Ukrainians wouldn't be dead today, there would be no 5+ million refugees from Ukraine, cities wouldn't be raised to the ground, Europe wouldn't be scrambling to find energy sources while their own citizens are asked to burden this conflict.

Instead we get a war in the name of freedom and democracy, as if we haven't seen how this plays out in other parts of the world like Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

I've been to Ukraine multiple times. Both when it was pro-Russia and when it started to become pro-West. Almost no difference. The world really got duped into believing that if Ukraine was under a Russian puppet versus a western puppet it would be so much different.

So is RU with about 12 of them. I actually think NATO should take 20k troops from each country and land them in Ukraine and say one more bomb and it’s on. Fuck Putin and his BS

Some deal, right?

"We'll stop killing you if you give up half your country. Have fun with all the damage we did. Hope there's no hard feelings."

I still can’t believe these idiots thinking that this whole invasion was anything but a land grab under some bullshit excuses

This post was edited by IchBinDaddy on Apr 26 2022 04:58pm

Do you deny russia is the aggressor invading a sovereign nation and commiting acts of genocide?