Ok I can understand why. I am just trying to put myself in your shoes.



Well , when one is being consumed by their personal selected media out let , they tend to react that way.



I wouldn't go so far as saying that, but he does lean quite heavily towards the Russians.

Answer the question

It is extremely wicked to frame the position that "Ukraine has a right to defend itself and should be supported by the West in its quest for independence and statehood" as "pro-death".

Donetsk & Luhansk have a right to defend themselves and should be supported by Russia in their quest for independence and statehood

Playing a little devil's advocate here, but while the words "pro death" are probably a bit hyperbolic, there is for sure an alarming and sudden rise in jingoist, almost an imperial attitude by Americans who have no idea that we've been bombing the shit out of non white countries non stop for decades. To them, Ukraine is a fad. To Europeans, it's different because it so much more directly affects them. Frankly I don't really care what Europeans think about it, I mostly just balk at the GW Bush style bloodthirst that so many Americans decided to convey.

Fine by me. It means that Russia would have a right to come to the defense of these people's republics as soon as Ukrainian tanks are pushing into PRL/PRD-held territory or shelling residential areas there with cruise missiles. Neither of which has happened.

In reality, the territories in Donbass held by pro-Russian separatists were not under any kind of credible or imminent military threat, no matter how often the Russian propaganda tries to claim otherwise. In reality, it were Russian tanks which invaded Ukraine, not the other way round. It were Russian missiles and artillery which devastated Ukrainian hospitals and apartment buildings, and it was the Russian side that tried to capture the entirety of Ukraine, rather than just defend the territory of the separatist regions. Why is that? Because this war has never been about defending ethnic Russians or the separatist regions, it has always been about subjugating and quelling Ukrainian sovereignty and independence!

at war for eight years = no millitary threat LMFAO

go wash your face with cold water

For a duration of 8 years, those are the numbers of sporadic border skirmishes, not the numbers of a full-blown war. Also, these numbers don't tell us anything about who the aggressor during those skirmishes was.

But okay, let me rephrase my previous statement a little bit to avoid any confusion:
There was no credible or imminent threat that the Ukrainian military would invade or otherwise recapture the separatist territory.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 25 2022 07:50pm

uh-uh, lets pretend there's a chance Donbass was attempting to break through and take over Ukraine & they were simply defending themselves



while that's some nice verbal gymnastics to try and justify 8 years of terror attacks by forces refusing to accept Donbass' freedom & independence, it appears some have ran out of patience needed to further endure them

After that many years I think both sides had some responsibility to come to the table and negotiate. Ukraine miscalculated Russia here obviously, egged on by the west. Like most of us here they probably didn't think Russia would go balls deep into this war. In hindsight, they should of given them autonomy and let them rule themselves while still being under an Ukrainian flag.

Also I don't think the region was just a frozen conflict similar to other parts of the world for those involved to just live with it. 14k dead isn't a small potato 'sporadic' border dispute similarly with what we see between Pakistan/India or NK/SK, India/China, etc other parts of the world were borders are in a frozen conflict. 14k dead with 80% of those coming on the separatist side, with 60k Ukrainian troops miles away, with no prospect of recognition or autonomy for those regions? If 8 years wasn't enough time, then at what point do we see some change on the ground for those regions?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Apr 25 2022 07:57pm