d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Covid 19 Vaccine
Prev16526536546556561275Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Sep 9 2021 02:11pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 9 Sep 2021 12:46)
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution:

It is as clear as it's application has been historically controversial. but clear none the less.

States likewise have clauses to regulate intrastate commerce in various ways. as do cities. vaccine mandates, disagree with them as i do, appear legal in this context.

my point was NOT that the constitution for the federal govt gives city mayors the power to do this. but in a historical view states wrote constitutions that were ratified in line with the US constitution, and cities likewise did the same. the root is there for this action. as with many shitty things it's legal.


Yes, reread what you think you've read. Not to regulate commerce. Read it one more time before you post another nonsensical reply. NOT to regulate commerce. Read the WHOLE THING. To regulate commerce... AMONG THE SEVERAL STATES. See how easy that was?

It was decided by SCOTUS ages ago that does NOT give "the government" the right to regulate intrastate commerce. Period, full stop, done. Again, States Rights issue. The second issue regarding the quote, is that it starts with the same thing ALL of section 8 starts with: "The Congress shall have Power". It does NOT detail this power to the executive. Thus, the executive mandates are... Wait for it... Unconstitutional. The executive does not have that power. In theory, Congress has the ability to pass a law regarding people to vaccinate to cross state lines, or to go onto federal land, or to cross into and out of native lands. They have no authority regarding intrastate commerce in that regard. And the Executive has no authority.

If anything, governors and/or mayors have more authority than the Executive Branch in this regard, depending on which state, as outlined by that state's particular constitution.

Quote (thesnipa @ 9 Sep 2021 12:46)
as to science denial im not sure what ur referring to. u said "we dont know" in regards to the science of vaccines affecting your ability or lack thereof to spread covid through a breakthrough infection, to which i agreed. you said we dont know the long term effect of mrna vaccines, to which i agreed. i pointed out in a population context by which vaccines are designed we can say a lower chance to be infected results in a lower chance for spread in said population, a point which i didnt see u acknowledge let alone agree or disagree with. as i stated, you're laser focused only on yourself, while making claims about what i deny that u cant back up. and acting in a way that u dont have science to back up, while lambasting others who are vaxxed for doing the same. bit odd all around really. the unknown never makes a good crutch, especially for those not exercising caution in that unknown.


I said nothing about a "breakthrough infection". Covid is not the virus, it's the disease. The virus can enter anyone at any time. Asymptomatic spread means you "caught covid" aka the virus, but did not get the disease (respiratory infection), and are now spreading the virus (SARS-CoV2-****) to other people. Now, in all our experience through the years with the Flu and various other coronaviruses, this is not supposed to be "a thing". However, the CDC and WHO, the primary sources of information regarding Covid, have stated that Covid DOES spread via asymptomatic spread, and the vaccinated can be carriers of the virus, which still spreads asymptomatically. Does this make sense? That means, that according to the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization, there is no evidence that vaccination impacts the spread. Nobody's talking about breakthrough cases here, because we aren't talking about the disease, we're talking about the virus.

So, until you can verify that the CDC and WHO are LYING, that asymptomatic spread is NOT a thing, you have no data, nor does ANYONE, that vaccines control the spread. You're simply denying science as it's been presented by the foremost authorities on the planet regarding infectious diseases. :)
Member
Posts: 93,001
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Sep 9 2021 02:19pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 9 2021 03:11pm)
Yes, reread what you think you've read. Not to regulate commerce. Read it one more time before you post another nonsensical reply. NOT to regulate commerce. Read the WHOLE THING. To regulate commerce... AMONG THE SEVERAL STATES. See how easy that was?

It was decided by SCOTUS ages ago that does NOT give "the government" the right to regulate intrastate commerce. Period, full stop, done. Again, States Rights issue. The second issue regarding the quote, is that it starts with the same thing ALL of section 8 starts with: "The Congress shall have Power". It does NOT detail this power to the executive. Thus, the executive mandates are... Wait for it... Unconstitutional. The executive does not have that power. In theory, Congress has the ability to pass a law regarding people to vaccinate to cross state lines, or to go onto federal land, or to cross into and out of native lands. They have no authority regarding intrastate commerce in that regard. And the Executive has no authority.

If anything, governors and/or mayors have more authority than the Executive Branch in this regard, depending on which state, as outlined by that state's particular constitution.


U spent a good deal strawmanning a post where u quoted your own defeat:

Quote
States likewise have clauses to regulate intrastate commerce in various ways. as do cities. vaccine mandates, disagree with them as i do, appear legal in this context.

my point was NOT that the constitution for the federal govt gives city mayors the power to do this. but in a historical view states wrote constitutions that were ratified in line with the US constitution, and cities likewise did the same. the root is there for this action. as with many shitty things it's legal.


not sure how u missed that unless u were power skimming, bad form regardless. u agreed with me while spending a paragraph saying otherwise.

Quote
I said nothing about a "breakthrough infection". Covid is not the virus, it's the disease. The virus can enter anyone at any time. Asymptomatic spread means you "caught covid" aka the virus, but did not get the disease (respiratory infection), and are now spreading the virus (SARS-CoV2-****) to other people. Now, in all our experience through the years with the Flu and various other coronaviruses, this is not supposed to be "a thing". However, the CDC and WHO, the primary sources of information regarding Covid, have stated that Covid DOES spread via asymptomatic spread, and the vaccinated can be carriers of the virus, which still spreads asymptomatically. Does this make sense? That means, that according to the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization, there is no evidence that vaccination impacts the spread. Nobody's talking about breakthrough cases here, because we aren't talking about the disease, we're talking about the virus.

So, until you can verify that the CDC and WHO are LYING, that asymptomatic spread is NOT a thing, you have no data, nor does ANYONE, that vaccines control the spread. You're simply denying science as it's been presented by the foremost authorities on the planet regarding infectious diseases. :)


ur semantics are cute and all but you seem to be ignoring reality.

the only people who can spread a disease are those sick with that disease, asymptomatic or otherwise. those who are vaccinated are less likely to become sick with covid. and therefore getting a vaccination reduces the chance you will spread covid, because its less likely you'll get covid.

frankly i dont get why this is so hard for u to admit, its basic reality. you'd rather spend time drawing up a diagram on how i'm denying science while appealing to organizations u dont respect for their authority, while denying basic science on the spread of diseases. raising semantic arguments to prove science denial is pretty funny irony though.
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Sep 9 2021 02:19pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 9 2021 01:11pm)
Yes, reread what you think you've read. Not to regulate commerce. Read it one more time before you post another nonsensical reply. NOT to regulate commerce. Read the WHOLE THING. To regulate commerce... AMONG THE SEVERAL STATES. See how easy that was?

It was decided by SCOTUS ages ago that does NOT give "the government" the right to regulate intrastate commerce. Period, full stop, done. Again, States Rights issue. The second issue regarding the quote, is that it starts with the same thing ALL of section 8 starts with: "The Congress shall have Power". It does NOT detail this power to the executive. Thus, the executive mandates are... Wait for it... Unconstitutional. The executive does not have that power. In theory, Congress has the ability to pass a law regarding people to vaccinate to cross state lines, or to go onto federal land, or to cross into and out of native lands. They have no authority regarding intrastate commerce in that regard. And the Executive has no authority.

If anything, governors and/or mayors have more authority than the Executive Branch in this regard, depending on which state, as outlined by that state's particular constitution.



I said nothing about a "breakthrough infection". Covid is not the virus, it's the disease. The virus can enter anyone at any time. Asymptomatic spread means you "caught covid" aka the virus, but did not get the disease (respiratory infection), and are now spreading the virus (SARS-CoV2-****) to other people. Now, in all our experience through the years with the Flu and various other coronaviruses, this is not supposed to be "a thing". However, the CDC and WHO, the primary sources of information regarding Covid, have stated that Covid DOES spread via asymptomatic spread, and the vaccinated can be carriers of the virus, which still spreads asymptomatically. Does this make sense? That means, that according to the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization, there is no evidence that vaccination impacts the spread. Nobody's talking about breakthrough cases here, because we aren't talking about the disease, we're talking about the virus.

So, until you can verify that the CDC and WHO are LYING, that asymptomatic spread is NOT a thing, you have no data, nor does ANYONE, that vaccines control the spread. You're simply denying science as it's been presented by the foremost authorities on the planet regarding infectious diseases. :)


The interpretation of the commerce clause is far reaching. Like it or not, SCOTUS's interpretation has more weight than yours.
Member
Posts: 93,001
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Sep 9 2021 02:21pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 9 2021 03:19pm)
The interpretation of the commerce clause is far reaching. Like it or not, SCOTUS's interpretation has more weight than yours.


and in any case no federal organization has tried to regulate commerce via vaccine mandates, its been city mayors. making his post all the more odd of a strawman.

even biden's federal worker move doesnt apply. it would be like saying a rule on the air conditioning levels in US embassies is trying to regulate foreign countries.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 9 2021 02:22pm
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Sep 9 2021 02:23pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 9 2021 01:21pm)
and in any case no federal organization has tried to regulate commerce via vaccine mandates, its been city mayors. making his post all the more odd of a strawman.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/09/09/biden-to-order-vaccine-or-test-mandate-for-businesses-with-over-100-workers/?sh=496a61291e81

Not anymore. Biden is coming down with the HAMMER
Member
Posts: 93,001
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Sep 9 2021 02:24pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 9 2021 03:23pm)


o wow.

my company has like 110 employees, ill start saving 11 people boxes to pack their things.
Member
Posts: 33,363
Joined: Dec 20 2007
Gold: 11,983.00
Sep 9 2021 02:27pm
Quote (thundercock @ 9 Sep 2021 13:23)


This has really gotten out of control.
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Sep 9 2021 02:29pm
Quote (Calipso @ Sep 9 2021 01:27pm)
This has really gotten out of control.


Just don't be a slave and work for an evil corporation. Small businesses are exempt! Support mom and pop. Or pop and pop if you're a homo.
Member
Posts: 22,265
Joined: Aug 17 2021
Gold: 1,546.83
Warn: 30%
Sep 9 2021 02:38pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 9 2021 01:19pm)

the only people who can spread a disease are those sick with that disease, asymptomatic or otherwise.


If someone is "asymptomatic", that means, by definition, he is not sick. You seem to think if there are Covid viruses inside a person, that means he is sick. Not true.
Member
Posts: 11,245
Joined: Jul 20 2006
Gold: 18,784.00
Sep 9 2021 02:40pm
Y'all are one dose away from being excluded from society and are asking for more. How fucking stupid human can be. We're all having fun bashing the unvaccinated but remember you can be and will be canceled just like now if you don't want to cooperate

This post was edited by TheHitman on Sep 9 2021 02:44pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev16526536546556561275Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll