Quote (thesnipa @ 2 Sep 2021 20:42)

vaccine created before a variant exists isnt effective against new variant, color me shocked.

the people against the vaccine were before delta, are still now. were against additional doses to reup immunity, before delta, and are still. and they didnt understand effectiveness rates of under 100% and herd immunity before delta, and are still.

delta didnt change their minds on any of it, why should it change my elementary science class level lessons?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 2 2021 01:57pm)

You are talking about the antivaxxers, I was talking about the covid karens who, for example, don't want to send their kids back to school because of the scary virus. And I'm talking about the experts who very clearly and undeniable promised more than they can deliver and now have to shift goalposts in plain sight. It's self-evident that this flip-flopping by the CDC, Fauci and others who we were urged to trust and listen to, will definitely not increase trust among the groups who are still on the fence. (That the hardline antivaxxers are a hopeless case is obvious.)

Regarding your polio example: its fundamental flaw is that polio was a significantly dangerous disease for children. In the case of polio, the vaccine mandate affected the group which was at risk. This is completely different from covid, where the risk among the sub-30 age groups is really negligible, yet many voices call for mandatory vaccinations affecting them too.

Quote (thesnipa @ 2 Sep 2021 21:23)

i think the CDC and others assumed if trump got the vaccine, then told others to, that we'd see "normal" rates of vaccinated people, aka everyone except wierdo hippies and "vaccines gave my kid autism" types. but the cult got bigger than Trump could lasso.

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the point on affected groups with polio is a good one tho, even with kids then taking stuff home to parents and grandparents. i was more focused on the forced aspect that the modern antivaxxers are obsessed with, and requirements to go places called the vaccine passport, that have always been in place with past vaccines and schools and travel.

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 2 2021 07:50pm)

any source? id be interested to read it.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 2 2021 02:37pm)

I've made a lenghty post about the Trump effect on vaccination rates yesterday, should be 1-3 pages ago. The bottom line is that a comparison with Europe shows Trump's impact to be responsible for, at most, a 10% gap in the vaccination rate. Even without his antics and his politicization of covid, the rate of fully vaccinated in the US would not be much higher than 60% right now (vs the 50ish % you guys currently have).


In the past, these mandates only affected schools iirc. Moreover, more and more countries and municipalities are gradually shifting toward a "vaccine or bust" stance, where even people who recently tested negative for covid will be excluded from stadiums, restaurants and other aspects of social life. I don't think that anything similar to that has ever occurred with any previous disease. Also keep in mind that we're living in a digital world where digital vaccine passports open up the door to a permanent surveillance of the population by the government in a way that paper-based vaccine passports of the past never did. The slippery slope argument with regards to digital vaccine passports or covid tracing apps is much more valid nowadays than its analog counterparts from 40 years ago.

Quote (SylvesterStallone @ Sep 2 2021 02:39pm)

I didn't read anything related to that myself, just heard what vincent racaniello said today at lex fridman's.
however he does have a blog and his own podcast on youtube so perhaps he might have some of that info there

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 2 2021 08:42pm)

ty ill listen to the pod as a starting point.

Quote (SylvesterStallone @ Sep 2 2021 02:44pm)

yeah it's quite good tbh.
talking 3 hours about viruses in general and covid can be quite exhausting sometimes, especially when guest is a semi autistic antisocial nerd, but this guy is real easy to listen and absorb from

Quote (thesnipa @ 2 Sep 2021 21:42)

Its a bit of an echo effect, trump is part of a global movement against globalization coming from the respective right wing of each nation in the first world. but he's inarguably the most globally influential figure. so while his effect in america is for sure stronger than other places his movement isnt stricly a US thing. he's got hoes in different area codes. in any case 10% of a nation of 400m is massive in reality.

private corporations are making unprecedented mandates because of the lack of a forced vaccination program like polio had. i am however very sympathetic to concerns of govt overreach in the digital space. and have been since the Patriot Act went so wrong.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 2 2021 02:58pm)

The US have a population of 331m, not 400m. ;)

If Trump had created 10% additional hard antivaxxers, that would be massive, but I don't think that's the case. I think it has more to do with the general level of distrust between the people and their respective government in various countries. For example, in Europe, the countries in which populism is strong and many people came to distrust their government over the past years, like France//Italy/Germany/Austria/UK, the vaccine uptake is lagging. In countries where populism is weaker, vaccine uptake is stronger. Examples of this are Spain, Denmark or Portugal. (France and Italy saw their vaccination campaigns pick up pace again recently due to very hard requirements by their governments which all but force the people to get the jab if they want to continue participating in social life.)

Also keep in mind that without Trump, Hillary narrowly wins the 2016 election, she's extremely unpopular and gets booted from office in 2020, and we have a populist Republican sitting in the WH right now.

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 2 2021 08:47pm)

surely u mean host, or did Lex find his equal? :rofl:

vitali on Lex was one of my fave pods ever.