Oh, I found it interesting and appreciate that you linked it. Sorry if my previous post made it sound like I was angry or lashing out against you, that was not my intention.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 2 2021 12:18pm

it's a problem , sure.
partially, we can assume they didn't know what they were talking about as it was all new, fresh, unknown, and they tried their best to give some hope to people.
however, it's a huge problem when everything changed, things they said didn't work out the way they said, and they NEVER said "we fucked up, sorry, but now we're smarter"
they keep contradicting themselves expecting people to comply with new rules that were being made on weekly basis which didn't, and still make no sense.

as i mentioned few pages back, with vaccine in here you can go to a pub, but you can't be present on the birth of your own child as a father.

people were forced to get the polio vaccine without an option not to. they showed up at schools and jabbed kids.

it prevented polio due to this near 100% vaccination rate by force.

u guys arent good at history.

these guys went so far, they couldnt admit failure without losing everything

the measures are not about logic or common sense, now its about who has a lobby and who has not

children for example dont, at my place they are still permamasked for hours in school while other activities are possible without them



this was not part of my argument, its just that the polio vaccine, mandatory or not, provides a significantly better effect

thats my point


This post was edited by JohnnyMcCoy on Sep 2 2021 12:24pm

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html

again, you're incorrect. and dont know history.

had we not forced vaccination of polio that lower than 100% effectiveness on 2 doses, let alone 1, would have caused polio to permeate in society for decades to come.

both a 3rd dose and the swiftness in forcing vaccinations eliminated it from the herd.

smallpox follows the same pattern:



temporary immunity and less than 100% effectiveness. however, again, the swift forced vaccination requirements (done in schools, kids couldnt come to school without it, etc) it wouldnt have disappeared.


in both cases it was not the effectiveness alone of the vaccine, but the forced vaccination as well that eliminated the virus.

But that's the thing: the efficacy of the covid vaccines at preventing infection is only around 80% or so against the Delta variant, which has a base reproduction number of 5-8, so that the threshold for herd immunity would sit at 80-87.5% immunization rate. In other words: even if the vaccine uptake was 100% of the entire population, including the immunocompromised, pregnant women and children aged 0-12, the current vaccines would still not be able to achieve proper herd immunity against the Delta variant; even then, it would keep spreading in the community at a very low level.


And that's the issue that many people cannot wrap their head around. They were led to believe that the spread would all but disappear if only we got our vaccination rate high enough, that we could go back to normal without seeing increasing case numbers. Due to Delta, this is no longer possible. Once the uptake is high enough, we can go back to normal, cases will go up moderately and the pressure on hospitals will be negligible thanks to the vaccines. That, rather than a de facto disappearance, is the endgame for the virus.

But it collides with the expectations of the covid karens, and it is a difficult shift in strategy and messaging for our politicians and public health experts. For the longest time, their messaging surrounding covid focused on the logic of preventing as many cases as possible, that every single infection was bad and a problem. Now going "we must no longer care about the raw case numbers anymore, oh, by the way, everyone, even the vaccinated, will get the virus over the next two years" is a huge deviation from the previous messaging.

and? that is indeed better than the covid vaccines (proving my point) and with a respiratory virus like covid you will NOT get this effect even with 100% vaccination rate and 10 jabs

it is indeed a massive success just like smallpox that also had mandatory vaccination, but its impossible to reproduce it here

covid is now an endemic virus, period

vaccine created before a variant exists isnt effective against new variant, color me shocked.

the people against the vaccine were before delta, are still now. were against additional doses to reup immunity, before delta, and are still. and they didnt understand effectiveness rates of under 100% and herd immunity before delta, and are still.

delta didnt change their minds on any of it, why should it change my elementary science class level lessons?



see? no nuance, no ability to alter stances. just "i was and remain always right". like clockwork. ty john.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 2 2021 12:43pm

another shocking thing that was never mentioned at all (at least from my knowledge) is that if you have covid, that doesn't mean you are spreading it or that you can spread it.
only 20% of covid positive people are actually spreading the virus. was shocked when I heard it today by vincent racaniello

any source? id be interested to read it.