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Apr 22 2022 08:59am
Quote (Goomshill @ 22 Apr 2022 08:00)
What criminal power was that? The lawfully, freely and fairly elected legitimate democratic government? The one representing the will of the people and the interests of Ukrainian society? The one declared criminal by the autocratic regime that overthrew it in a foreign-backed coup d'etat, who ended national democracy in the country and then ended all democracy in the country, who banned the opposition and seized state media and employs actual Nazi death squads to kill journalists and dissidents?

For contrast, I'd say that ISIS had a more legitimate claim to governance than the Zelensky regime does right now. ISIS represented the legitimate will of the common people of Iraq and Syria, the majority of their population. They were formed by the revolution against undemocratic, autocratic powers that had suppressed the Sunni extremists. Once the yoke of the Ba'athists was removed, the average Iraqi and Syrian was happy to support a caliphate on the promise of sex slaves, butchering shias and kurds and yazidis and launching holy war against the west. ISIS didn't overthrow legitimate democracies, they overthrew dictators and foreign puppet governments. I'm sure if they ever held a truly free and fair election, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi would have won it. Until Delta Force send him a care package (in an operation supported by Russia, gee)

It was misguided idealists (charitable interpretation) who opened the door to regressive extremists in the mideast getting the representation they wanted after the Arab Spring. It took a cynical pragmatist to acknowledge that global society is better off with the boot on their neck. But what ideals were we pursuing when we backed 'all layers of society and protesters' from exclusively in the west of Ukraine to overthrow the democratic government elected by the more populous eastern oblasts, then plundered the country by replacing its russian oligarchy with a western oligarchy? We replaced their post-soviet corruption with our own, except this time around it wasn't a government they elected as a country, it was the fruit of insurrection. Maybe the French are okay with that, but I take a dim view of government at the barrel of a gun


Half of your post is flat out incorrect, could be that you are missing a lot of lexical knowledge on the subject.

It was not representing the will of the ukranian society, thats literally the point. Thats why the ppl overthrew it and elected a democratic leader instead of a russian puppet. Cant get much more democratic than that.
Zelensky was elected with the highest percentage of votes ever, that high is unprecedented in ukranian history, but even considering the whole eu its extremly rare.
And they didnt kill anyone, they just removed some russian paid fake news media as they should.
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Apr 22 2022 09:08am
Btw i'm surprised that fascists who are siding with Putin (because he represents a strong central executivel power), are completely ignoring the oligarchic and kleptocratic side of the coin.
Zelensky did 73% so it overrides easily the very tiny part of Ukraine who didnt vote.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Apr 22 2022 09:23am
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Apr 22 2022 09:22am
Quote (Ognadibik @ Apr 22 2022 10:59am)
Half of your post is flat out incorrect, could be that you are missing a lot of lexical knowledge on the subject.

It was not representing the will of the ukranian society, thats literally the point. Thats why the ppl overthrew it and elected a democratic leader instead of a russian puppet. Cant get much more democratic than that.
Zelensky was elected with the highest percentage of votes ever, that high is unprecedented in ukranian history, but even considering the whole eu its extremly rare.
And they didnt kill anyone, they just removed some russian paid fake news media as they should.


More than half of the country voted for Yanukovych, how was that not representing the will of the people in a democracy?

Later, Zelensky got most of the vote in an environment when any pro-Russian sentiment was stomped out domestically, both in the media as well as on the actual ground with ultra-nationalists going around and intimidating anyone that had any sort of separatists/pro-Russian notions. This is like pointing to Assad, Gadhafi or some other dictator being democratically elected after the opposition got stomped into the ground and saying "Look at the % of people that voted for him! Democracy!"
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Apr 22 2022 09:24am
Quote (Ognadibik @ Apr 22 2022 09:59am)
Half of your post is flat out incorrect, could be that you are missing a lot of lexical knowledge on the subject.

It was not representing the will of the ukranian society, thats literally the point. Thats why the ppl overthrew it and elected a democratic leader instead of a russian puppet. Cant get much more democratic than that.
Zelensky was elected with the highest percentage of votes ever, that high is unprecedented in ukranian history, but even considering the whole eu its extremly rare.
And they didnt kill anyone, they just removed some russian paid fake news media as they should.


Yeah you can't get much more democratic than overthrowing the lawfully, freely and fairly elected government and then installing an autocratic regime featuring nazis that outlaws the opposition and seizes control of the media. On a related note, Saddam Hussein was re-elected in 2002 with the highest recorded referendum victory of 100.00% in a 11,445,638 - 0 election for his next seven year term.

I still can't get over the absolutely absurd whiplash of this entire debacle coming within 4 years of screaming that everyone the neoliberals don't like is a Nazi and the same year as screaming about insurrectionists
At least after 9/11 I understood the chuds, the paranoia and jingoism and vengeance all made sense. Right now its like a clown fiesta
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Apr 22 2022 09:25am
Turns out Gonzalo Lira is alive:



He's being held in SBU captivity
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Apr 22 2022 09:32am
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Apr 22 2022 09:27am)
ok bro, this u on the right side btw ?

https://i.imgur.com/9lgW9MX.jpg


Orcs are not people, therefore they can't be "inferior people."
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Apr 22 2022 09:33am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Apr 22 2022 03:52pm)
Putin's boots lickers like you cant stop Ukrainian people desire to leave this terrible kleptocracy oligarchy...
Nato, US, Eu, are doing their job correctly. Are you a masochist or something like this ?


Countries like Vietnam or Afghanistan couldn't be "changed" and how much did it cost? And I mean ALL THE COSTS.

How do you think to persuade Russia to give up and bend the knee have you ever thought about it?

You are basically cheering for war between Russia and the West. Where are your brains ffs
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Apr 22 2022 09:36am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 22 Apr 2022 15:22)
More than half of the country voted for Yanukovych, how was that not representing the will of the people in a democracy?

Later, Zelensky got most of the vote in an environment when any pro-Russian sentiment was stomped out domestically, both in the media as well as on the actual ground with ultra-nationalists going around and intimidating anyone that had any sort of separatists/pro-Russian notions. This is like pointing to Assad, Gadhafi or some other dictator being democratically elected after the opposition got stomped into the ground and saying "Look at the % of people that voted for him! Democracy!"


From wiki; 49% vs 45.5.

Yanukovych abruptly changed his mind on an Association Agreement with the European Union, deciding to strengthen economic ties with Russia instead.
You can get win election by 2.5 % but betraying what you promised to your own people - and to EU officials - is not really in the spirit of a democracy.

Unfortunately Yanukovych was not able to get a luxury boat, only sold his 75 Millions $ house when fled to Russia.

.
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Apr 22 2022 09:37am
Quote (Santara @ Apr 22 2022 06:32pm)
Orcs are not people, therefore they can't be "inferior people."


total dehumanization, thus you nazis of today are much worse than even your ancestors from germany



This post was edited by HeLiCaL on Apr 22 2022 09:38am
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Apr 22 2022 09:37am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 22 2022 10:25am)
Turns out Gonzalo Lira is alive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2yeSOcNlgE

He's being held in SBU captivity


Turns out Scott Ritter is a trash source too.

He's not "being held," he was picked up and released.
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