You need to prove that "T-cell response to mRNA vaccines is higher than natural immunity", means vaccines provide better protection than the immune system.

You should take care about these conclusions and using them.

first: This article is a preprint and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

second: I will give you an example: There was a study released about viral charge exposing that people vaccinated people had the same load than unvaccinated ones, the problem is this study was based on PCR tests which were was unable to make the difference in-between complete virus and destroyed parts of virus.

third: Now here's some deeper analysis of this (the one you link) study:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/


ty

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Sep 10 2021 01:52pm

u keep telling people what they need to prove, or what?

you're "not gonna get vaxxed" no matter what.

o wait!

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=85507610&f=27



any bad side effects to jab 2?

The study linked in my earlier post does that. The conclusions are that for those who have recovered from COVID, the first dose of an mRNA vaccine regimen produces a T-cell response higher than that of natural immunity, and on par with what is observed in a two-dose regimen administered to those who had not previously been exposed to SARS-CoV2. The change in T-cell response between the first and second doses was negligible for those who have recovered from previous infection. The takeaway here is, the natural immunity provided by initial exposure to SARS-CoV2 primes the pump, if you will, similar to how the first dose given to SARS-CoV2-naive persons does. The second dose to naive individuals and the first dose (of mRNA vaccine) to exposed/recovered individuals gives an expanded T-cell response. The second dose does not appear to provide much additional T-cell response to exposed/recovered individuals.

Be assured that you are much better than the Insaneboob, Ituff, Sylversetersallone etc... crew.

What do the words "reduce transmission" mean? What do the words "the vaccine does not prevent transmission" mean? My words are accurate. According to the CDC data, which you have just posted, I am completely accurate, and you are wrong to even argue the point.

Now, present me all the data you can find regarding how much the transmission is reduced by vaccines. THEN present me all the data you can find regarding reduced transmission via natural immunity (aka those who've already contracted the virus). Hint: The data doesn't exist.

So, the very "experts" that we're supposed to rely upon are drawing conclusions via lack of data. Just like the statements that "we don't think there'll be long term side effects from mRNA vaccines". This is not knowable.

It's ironic that you're attempting to demand data when the very criticism I'm leveling at you, duff, sauci, thor, and all the others who want to argue that violating bodily autonomy might be "a good thing" is that you're basing the idea off a lack of data.



I already went through Jenny McCarthy's movement. I already addressed the "expert" who used fraudulent data. Posting the name of the guy doesn't change the fact that he's a quack who had his license yanked for knowingly committing fraud.

"The Doctors you spoke to" are familiar with a vaccine methodology (mRNA) that has never had any phase 4 studies? Please have them write up a medical paper for peer review on their thoughts about why mid/long term side effects of a vaccine type that's never had phase 4 studies "probably won't" be harmful. I'm sure it'll be a great read.

The #1 issue here, Duff, is that I'm pro vaccine, and pro bodily autonomy. I think anyone who wants a vaccine should get it. I think anyone in an at risk group should be encouraged to get it. However, based on the most current studies, which align very well with everything we know of immunology, natural immunity is king. I also have extreme reservations about trying to "protect yourself" from a virus that you're at low risk of severe symptoms of, when similar viruses could come along later that're worse. Most of the people posting on this forum about not personally taking the Vaccines have a similar stance. There's nothing "antivax" about any of this.

My only real concern at this time is mandates relating to the vaccines, especially where schools and employers are concerned. Covid is literally less deadly to those under 19 (those under 29, tbh) than the flu. That's what the data gathered over the last 20 months has indicated. We have death rates, we have hospitalization rates, and children are not impacted in any notable measure. Why would we mandate vaccination to a group who doesn't need it, and who would likely derive greater benefit from simply catching the cold and moving on?

So if you want to shelve your attempts to water down the term "antivax" and have a real conversation, I'm down. But until then, you've simply turned into another screaming authoritarian who doesn't give two shits less about science, data, or facts, and just wants to violate other people's bodily autonomy.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Sep 10 2021 02:06pm

What do you make of the disparity between the vaccinated and unvaccinated regarding acute Covid illness and hospitalization rates?

The fake vaccinations seem to be helping reduce hospitalization rates, but it shouldn't be mandated for people to get vaccinated, period. If someone doesn't trust these rushed ass vaccines and wants to put their own body at risk, hats off to them. Vaccinated or unvaccinated, people are still carriers and can spread it lol. What the CDC fails to tell everyone is that vaccinated still get infected and still spread the virus. Instead, the narrative used is that someone is SELFISH or INSENSITIVE for not being vaccinated--assuming that the vaccines somehow lower transmission rates. I'm disgusted with our government and the CDC. They're using these fake, rushed vaccines as a way to divide us, just like BLM.

But since hospital care is a finite resource, people's decision to not get vaccinated does not simply put their own body at risk.

I see your point and that does make sense. However, the vast majority of people infected with COVID are asymptomatic. It's not fair for it to be assumed that unvaccinated people are DESTINED to go hog a bed at the hospital or DESTINED to be infected with COVID-19. The numbers simply don't lie.

This post was edited by net on Sep 10 2021 02:16pm