Quote (Goomshill @ 22 Apr 2022 06:00)
What criminal power was that? The lawfully, freely and fairly elected legitimate democratic government? The one representing the will of the people and the interests of Ukrainian society? The one declared criminal by the autocratic regime that overthrew it in a foreign-backed coup d'etat, who ended national democracy in the country and then ended all democracy in the country, who banned the opposition and seized state media and employs actual Nazi death squads to kill journalists and dissidents?
For contrast, I'd say that ISIS had a more legitimate claim to governance than the Zelensky regime does right now. ISIS represented the legitimate will of the common people of Iraq and Syria, the majority of their population. They were formed by the revolution against undemocratic, autocratic powers that had suppressed the Sunni extremists. Once the yoke of the Ba'athists was removed, the average Iraqi and Syrian was happy to support a caliphate on the promise of sex slaves, butchering shias and kurds and yazidis and launching holy war against the west. ISIS didn't overthrow legitimate democracies, they overthrew dictators and foreign puppet governments. I'm sure if they ever held a truly free and fair election, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi would have won it. Until Delta Force send him a care package (in an operation supported by Russia, gee)
It was misguided idealists (charitable interpretation) who opened the door to regressive extremists in the mideast getting the representation they wanted after the Arab Spring. It took a cynical pragmatist to acknowledge that global society is better off with the boot on their neck. But what ideals were we pursuing when we backed 'all layers of society and protesters' from exclusively in the west of Ukraine to overthrow the democratic government elected by the more populous eastern oblasts, then plundered the country by replacing its russian oligarchy with a western oligarchy? We replaced their post-soviet corruption with our own, except this time around it wasn't a government they elected as a country, it was the fruit of insurrection. Maybe the French are okay with that, but I take a dim view of government at the barrel of a gun
Your speech is ridiculous. If you want i show you the horrors of Russian regime:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Russiahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_RussiaMelting Zelensky and ISIS ? Wtf the shit in your troll head ^^
Quote (ferdia @ 22 Apr 2022 09:12)
Ukraine had its government changed in a Coup supported by the west. It is in the Ukrainian constitution (now) as I understand it that they would join Nato. France and Germany would have been and are aware of the Minsk treaty. France didnt accept America's shit about Iraq 2 and Germany is well aware of WW2, so obviously its normal for them to show some resistance to something that would destabilize the region.
We give Russia the same respect re: regional security when noting America and Cuba. If you say everything Russia says is fake then your smearing an entire country. That is xenophobic. One could just as easily say that alot of stuff from another country is fake. Yes Russia is spewing a pack of lies, but so is everyone else. re: "oh, we are nice people, we are going to leave Kyiv as a sign of goodwill". there are varied interpretations of what russia did and why re: Kyiv. I invite you to read what was said in this topic relating to it. I dont see any reason to comment on Russia not telling any one they were going to invade. this topic was made before they invaded. it was clear they were going to invade it was just a matter of what day. if the build up was not telegraphing i dont know what is. for strategic reasons it would have been dumb to tell the west "we are invading on monday, hope your ready".
If you really think Putin is empire building why did he not do it before ? he is isolationist. he drew a line in the sand and said no further, thanks. we crossed that line. I try not to go down godwins path so i wont comment on WW2. If you think there are similarities I would suggest you read more re: origins of WW2 and origins of this conflict, or watch the video below. Russia does not care about Alaska (or finland) it cares bout Ukraine. its a bit rich to be talking about black and white when you are smearing everything russia says as lies.
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the above should be considered a response, and not an attack. we welcome new users to this thread and we like open (sometimes heated) debate. before responding, here is a video we show to new ppl in the topic. if you are interested in events, you can consider watching it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4This guy is also saying that at some point Russia is
not tolerating that Ukraine to become a part of the EU, Nato.
"Russia not tolerating" that people can refuse its criminal behavior. Because Russia is doing a constant coup since 30 years.
Why do you think Ukraine is sacrifying soldiers who have such incredible motivation ? Because of Nato, Us, or EU? What a joke: No,
they want to get free of the Russian Regime.And
they will be helped massively, whatever your guys want it or not.Aka; A lot of time to have Ukraine to become that free without any kind of help from the outside: this only means that the war (which is not; it's an invasion) Mearsheimer announced would still happen, just later.
And Russia would have WON. If you support that you only deserve to get send on East front with a kick on the ass.
This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Apr 22 2022 04:31am