d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev15945955965975984527Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 52,048
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,933.00
Apr 21 2022 03:17am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 20 2022 09:43pm)
And so it's justified if I call the Ukraine Nazi's animals for executing dozens of random people in Bucha accoused of "collaborating with the enemy"?


You have no evidence. You have baseless accusations that were leveled to attempt (poorly) to distract from your country's behavior.
Member
Posts: 51,708
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 15,520.00
Apr 21 2022 03:17am
Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 21 2022 10:14am)
Statement from Putin at a Kremlin meeting in the past few hours, saying they have decided not to storm the Azovstal steelworks at Mariupol and are telling their forces to stand down and blockade the steelworks instead
This is a reversal from Shoigu and Kadyrov's plan to take full control of Mariupol and eliminate all resistance.

They could have stormed the area and engaged in brutal fighting with high casualties, or they could have bombarded it and expended inordinate ordnance and probably not killed all the azov holdouts underground. Putin isn't pretending to cite humanitarian justification, he said that the plan was "impractical", so we can assume the casualty projections were too high. Since Azov probably doesn't have much if any food reserves, being blockaded and under siege with no escape means they can't last more than a few weeks. Maybe we'll see nazi cannibals


T4I. watch this space i guess. will have to look back at this point in a few weeks to see what the narrative is then compared to now.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 21 2022 03:19am
Member
Posts: 16,935
Joined: Feb 24 2018
Gold: 7,398.00
Apr 21 2022 03:18am
Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 21 2022 11:14am)
Statement from Putin at a Kremlin meeting in the past few hours, saying they have decided not to storm the Azovstal steelworks at Mariupol and are telling their forces to stand down and blockade the steelworks instead
This is a reversal from Shoigu and Kadyrov's plan to take full control of Mariupol and eliminate all resistance.

They could have stormed the area and engaged in brutal fighting with high casualties, or they could have bombarded it and expended inordinate ordnance and probably not killed all the azov holdouts underground. Putin isn't pretending to cite humanitarian justification, he said that the plan was "impractical", so we can assume the casualty projections were too high. Since Azov probably doesn't have much if any food reserves, being blockaded and under siege with no escape means they can't last more than a few weeks. Maybe we'll see nazi cannibals

No matter what he does it would be wrong. Doing nothing is best course of action. Russian forces don't have to take Azovstal. I think most journos were waiting with their pre written scripts about how Russia is killing civilists and civilists only in Azovstal with the emphasis on women and children.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Apr 21 2022 03:20am
Member
Posts: 62,461
Joined: Jul 24 2012
Gold: 0.21
Apr 21 2022 03:19am
The world's pretty facked up lads
Member
Posts: 46,798
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,159.69
Apr 21 2022 03:23am
Quote (killerrs2 @ Apr 21 2022 04:19am)
The world's pretty facked up lads


I'm already writing the opening scenes to my script for the hollywood take on russians fighting nazi cannibals that we can produce 15+ years from now when the jingoism wears off. The spetsnaz special forces are walking in the dark under a bloodsoaked, torn and shredded azov wolfsangel flag on the outskirts, hearing the echoing screams and clattering far in the distance, deep in the hearts of the steelworks. They pass a body of a russian with a swastika carved into his chest, his legs and arms missing and a cold campfire nearby. "We tried to starve them out, but they had plenty of corpses"
Member
Posts: 52,048
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,933.00
Apr 21 2022 03:39am
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 21 2022 01:23am)
Santara, a coward who thinks we were the "good guys" in Serbia (despite the combined US/NATO bombing killing many thousands of civilians), hates my guts so much he wants to try to get me banned again. Even though he also engages in the same insults, only I don't report his posts because I'm not a huge loser.


Apparently unlike you, I can take my suspensions like a man. If I had reported you (which is pretty much something I never do), I'd most certainly tell you to your face.
Member
Posts: 37,941
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
Apr 21 2022 03:43am
Quote (Goomshill @ 21 Apr 2022 12:23)
I'm already writing the opening scenes to my script for the hollywood take on russians fighting nazi cannibals that we can produce 15+ years from now when the jingoism wears off. The spetsnaz special forces are walking in the dark under a bloodsoaked, torn and shredded azov wolfsangel flag on the outskirts, hearing the echoing screams and clattering far in the distance, deep in the hearts of the steelworks. They pass a body of a russian with a swastika carved into his chest, his legs and arms missing and a cold campfire nearby. "We tried to starve them out, but they had plenty of corpses"


Wolfenstein 4D
Member
Posts: 26,556
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
Apr 21 2022 05:07am
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 20 2022 11:28pm)
I disagree. People who are descendants of Nazis should be ashamed for what their grandparents did. Americans should be ashamed for the awful stuff that we do currently. If you AREN'T ashamed then your country is likely to repeat the same thing.

I see what your problem is regarding Russia. You haven't recalibrated your understanding of the Russian military based on the current evidence. I too believed that Kiev would fall within days if Russia attacked, much like everyone else. I too believed that Chechen fighters were something to be feared. I too believed that Russia would have plans on how to properly occupy captured cities. Alas, I was wrong. Most of us were. That doesn't make Russia weak (far from it). But it does make Russia significantly weaker than we originally thought. Simply put, their ability to wage an offensive war is quite limited without seriously risking their national security. Can they go all in on Ukraine without Japan eyeing the Kuril Islands? What about South Ossetia? At some point, difficult decisions need to be made.

The biggest blow to Russian national security is that we KNOW their capabilities now. We've SEEN how they fight which is why the other countries keep sending heavier equipment. What could Russia possibly do to stop them? I suppose it should have been obvious from the beginning (the US defense budget is comparable to Russia's entire GDP) but Russia's strength from the Cold War simply blinded us.

As for Ukraine beating Russia militarily, I think you're probably right about that. Afghanistan couldn't beat us militarily either. Neither could the Vietnamese. We fucking kicked their asses. But at the end of the day, the Taliban is in charge of Afghanistan and the Communists are in charge of Vietnam. Russia doesn't have the resources to occupy East Ukraine indefinitely.


They're not going for the full Ukraine, that's pretty clear now. I disagree with them not being able to hold the east. There's a reason why I highlighted the voting patterns from 2010. Most people there will just accept Russia and in 10-15 years it'll be no different than Dagestan and Chechnya in opposition to Russia.
Member
Posts: 52,048
Joined: Jan 3 2009
Gold: 8,933.00
Apr 21 2022 05:21am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 21 2022 06:07am)
They're not going for the full Ukraine, that's pretty clear now. I disagree with them not being able to hold the east. There's a reason why I highlighted the voting patterns from 2010. Most people there will just accept Russia and in 10-15 years it'll be no different than Dagestan and Chechnya in opposition to Russia.


Even ethnic Russians in the east are fighting the fascist invaders.
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 285.00
Apr 21 2022 05:32am
At this point Putin has lost:

The credibility with Europe.
The confidence of his people.
The support of the military.
The regard of the oligarchs.
The respect from all nations around the world.

There is no path to victory.

Yet he is surrounded by people who tell him he is winning.

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 21 2022 05:33am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev15945955965975984527Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll