put me in a room with Putin, war over.

I agree on the bold. Don't think trying to get creative about NATO membership is going to work though.

I think right now Russia is being forced to pay too high of a price for this war so they'll settle without getting complete control of Ukraine. On the other hand I think most realize that they've held back militarily. I think deep down what Russia wanted was to not lose the average Ukrainian heart so they can be brought back into the fold. So they tried to have a 'lite' touch to this war but I think that vision crumbled. Zelensky i think did well to try and mobilize normal people even though I disagreed with it. It forces Russia now to either basically recognize that Ukraine will turn to the west or lead an extremely unpopular all out war on Ukraine. This to me is a rare sighting on Putin actually losing a geopolitical chess match.

The U.S was involved in the overthrow of Ukraine in 2014, and involved in installing a nazi terror group, that has been terrorizing the citizens in east ukraine for 8 years
its all out there, truth has come out, if your following the correct sources, They have released the phone calls of the state department discussing who they were going to put in as President of Ukraine
They sent billions of dollars to Ukraine which they then funneled out back into their own pockets

Yeah, a protracted war will bankrupt the state in light of the sanctions. They have definitely held back militarily, although the lite touch is simply modern warfare and if they didn't botch Antonov airport they would have had Kiev by now

Are the costs of the invasion now locked in for Russia? Surely sanctions and blacklisting would remain even after a conclusive end to the war. Does that mean Russia is likely to push on with the war because fuck it? Or maybe they'll try and negotiate on the sanctions as a condition of peace

I feel like 99% of the time most sanctions end up hurting the average pleb over the people you would want to actually hurt. Look at Iran or North Korea for example, you think the top people in charge are drastically impacted and have degraded ways of life? Mostly not.

I think some sanctions will remain while others are cannibalistic in nature, at least for many countries in Europe. 10 years from now, lets say Russia pivoted to the east, to Chinese banks, corporations, investments, loans, etc you think Europe is better off by losing that as a market and having to deal with less economic leverage in Russia? I think not.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 2 2022 02:25pm

I think the sanctions hurt more the average joe and other countries.

I don't think a country with Russia's demographics would cause much difference to Europe. We've basically locked Russia out of the Western economy and that may hit GDP growth by 0.8% (at most) according to forecasts, if it isn't affecting us now then why will it affect us in a few decades when Russia has a lower population and when their industries are centered around commodities we'll have pivoted away from? Asia is where the future business is, with rapidly increasing incomes and population growth in pockets

As bad as it sounds, the people do need to suffer in order to put pressure on the Kremlin to change course. If the Kremlin has got such a grip on the state where this doesn't change anything, like North Korea, then sanctions won't be as effective. But even if that's the case, intelligence also suggests the Kremlin has been severely limited in their ability to fund a war since the 2014 sanctions. It's probably why it took them 8 years to make a move on Ukraine and why some of their military equipment is dilapidated and their organisation in this war has been poor so far

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 2 2022 03:02pm

These social credit assholes managed to get hated more than russians