This sounds about right. It could, however, lead to a really ugly debate about whether holding someone down with a knee to their neck is an "eminently dangerous" act. Iirc, if applied correctly, these holds are not directly dangerous. If true, this whole trial could hinge on a question where facts and public opinion collide.

this trial is about emotions and public opinion, not facts. no matter the result it wont end well unfortunately

on that same note tho it could be argued that in a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio of cops to perp you shouldn't need to do this hold for long, let alone for 9 minutes.

if you're 1 on 1 and a perp is a clear danger, sure, even 2 on 1. but 4 on 1 when the perp has been subdued for 5 minutes already?

just from a self preservation standpoint the officer kept it going far too long. should have secured cuffs behind his back, hobbled him with ankle cuffs, then transitioned him to sitting on the curb until he was ready to safely get in the back of the cop car or an ambulance arrived for an examination. given his erratic behavior and reports he headbutted plexiglass in the initial arrest they should have been called for a tox assessment and to check his head.

if you pin a snake down by the neck that's fine, but eventually you need a plan to let it go and get it into a bin. you dont just hold it there for 10 minutes.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 30 2021 08:27am

Yes, absolutely. Imho, this whole incident is to be blamed primarily on insufficient training and oversight within the MPD. Chauvin is clearly incompetent and overwhelmed by being a cop. He should have been trained better, or been removed from the police force a long time ago.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 30 2021 08:37am

the problem is you can undergo all of the training in the world and it comes down to character of the individual. when presented with a highly stressful case of a manic and under the influence person who's self harming youre in a dire situation. look at similar situations in the military, countless hours training but until you're in the shit you might be a killer or someone who freezes.

ive done a lot of research into potential training methods and honestly im not impressed with what's proposed. cops still want to get home, and that will overcome whatever nonviolent training they take. the best training would be BJJ so they at least are experts in subduing people, but most cops cant be bothered. but what's coming from academia as potential fixes are just overpriced garbage, and would result in a lot more dead cops if they try it. cops know this.

Chauvin was always going to do this to someone, at some time. he was a bad apple. a poor mix of self preservation at the cost of others to a fault and likely some anger or bias issues towards blacks, perps, or both.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 30 2021 08:41am

2 of the cops on the scene were interns and George Flyod was bigger than a cow.

The amount of force used should have been more.

How many police officers are murdered in these situations every year?

when a bystander helps out a cop in a tussle we all applaud, now cop interns cant be expected to pin a leg or arm down while the officer cuffs someone?

oh, that's right, they already were. and he was already cuffed, and could easily have been hobbled:



cops in a heated tussle, look out for themselves. that's fine. draw a weapon, taze someone, get out the club. w/e.

cops once someone is restrained, need to look out for themselves as well. deescalate force, get perp into a position to breathe freely. put them in an open area seated so they can't grab, kick, headbutt anything. etc.

this guy stayed on step 1 for about 5 mins too long.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 30 2021 08:48am

Are you saying they should have killed him faster? Guy dies, and you say more force should be used.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Mar 30 2021 08:51am

Riots either way. Minor charges or acquittal will cause massive rioting country wide.

Guilty verdict on serious crimes will still cause rioting/looting but to a much lessor extent.

I haven't been following this as closely as I would like, but I assume this will be a shit show resulting in serious guilt verdict with jail time.

Facts aside, public opinion is going to drive this case. I don't see how a jury could be impartial.

yep, a fair trial is impossible and the mob wont be happy with anything that is not instant crucifixion

will be interesting to see what role the massive drug cocktail will play, you could knock out an elephant with that