Gaza is happening as we speak and I didn't say everything is fine.

Poorest reply I've ever seen there's literally no point in talking to you

This post was edited by Djunior on Jun 2 2025 02:56am

Does it really make that much of a difference in moral terms whether a military base inside enemy territory is hit by drone swarms which were released by official soldiers, or hit by drone swarms released by foreign intelligence agents?

Also, let's not forget all the underhanded shit Russia has pulled off during this conflict. Remember how the unmarked green men which were showing up in Donetsk and Luhansk in 2014 were initially framed by the Kremlin as completely unaffiliated, then later as "patriotic Russian soldiers who volunteered there during their free time"? (LMAO!) Or how Russia sent an elite commando to take the critical airport near Kyiv hours before the full-scale invasion began? How their own foreign intelligence has brazenly poisoned and assassinated dissidents on Western soil for years? How they are regularly spying our bases here in Europe? How their hackers are relentlessly attacking our digital infrastructure? Or how their ships have repeatedly attempted to destroy undersea cables?

Ukraine has simply leveraged one of Russia's biggest weaknesses against them: that their country is so ginormous that it is categorically impossible to control all their land borders and prevent foreign saboteurs from infiltrating. The strategic depth which saved their asses against Napoleon and Hitler has been turned into a vulnerability.

Fair enough, these are legitimate targets. What's completely inexplainable is doing this on the eve of potential peace talks. You keep both sides-ing this issue but Russia is not blowing Zelensky's airplane out of the sky, Russia is not indiscriminately sieging or bombing population centers during the week that there's supposed peace talks, yet Ukraine is escalating. Can you be honest and agree that Ukraine doesn't want peace? You know why? Because there's a whole power apparatus there that ceases to be paid or ceases be needed if the war is over. Cut off the hundreds of billions of western aid and SBU and who's paying them?

It's the same logic as why DOD/Pentagon would dig in their heels and cry if any administration tried to reign in military spending. No one wants to lose their cushy job, no one wants their program funding cut, their power cut.

Is there any difference in moral or other frameworks if any other nuclear or non-nuclear state providing military aid to Ukraine is subjected to a similar or larger-scale attack by foreign intelligence agents rather than regular army?

Is there any difference whether a civilian or military target is attacked, especially if the targeted side has previously disregarded civilian casualties? We are treading on thin ice here, particularly considering a nuance:

Strategic bombers must be available for inspection:
At their bases, they are stationed in open parking areas for the sake of transparency (START III) to make it clear that they are not in a state of immediate combat readiness.
This allows satellite surveillance and inspectors to verify how many bombers exist and where they are located.
START III was extended until 2026.

Thus, Ukraine has, to some extent, leveraged U.S. assistance to strike Russia’s strategic nuclear component in violation of New START (START III). If Putin were at least Khrushchev (let alone Stalin) we would all have been glowing and smoldering for a day by now.

Speaking about nuance.
Zelenskyy asks Putin:
"Vladimir Vladimirovich, what is a nuance?"
Putin replies: "Look, Volodymyr,"- then bends Zelenskyy over and shoves his d** up Zelenskyy's a**.
"I have a d** in the a** and you have a d** in the a**, but there's a nuance."

This post was edited by Norlander on Jun 2 2025 11:37am

Is it really a question of morality? I mean, the pragmatic consideration for war crimes is that the other side will take reciprocal action. Western countries agreed not to gas each other for fear of the other side's gas. There's a moral element, but its more than that.
Russia has maintained some degree of respect for these boundaries. They sent an elite commando unit to try to take the Kiev airport in an armed and flagged invasion. They have brazenly poisoned and assassinated their own citizens who defected to Western soil. Their spying has been surveillance operations, no widescale or destructive campaign of sabotage like we've done to them, though perhaps some smaller scale attacks on arms depots in response to our sabotage. We try to seize their ships, they seize our ships, back and forth it goes, but nothing even remotely close to the kind of flagrant terrorism tactics that we just saw in this attack.

We've had decades of western media showing spooky Russian agents in movies engaged in the kind of dramatic terrorist attacks against the west we just saw by NATO-backed Ukraine against Russia. But Russia's never actually gone out and blown up our bridges or trains or knocked out our planes.

The main weakness we just leveraged against Russia is that they had spent decades abiding by the SALT treaty agreement to station nuclear-capable bombers in visible above-ground locations, so each side could purposefully allow spy satellites to see their deployments and avoid the question of a sneak attack underway. We did the same, even leaving B52s being decommissioned out in the open for a specified time so Russia could confirm them being destroyed. We just took their cooperation in a nuclear treaty and weaponized it against them in a first strike against their nuclear capabilities.

So again, the question that should be on everyone's mind is how Russia will respond, if Russia will respond. There are logical arguments for why they could just ignore it, or logical arguments or why they could rain hell on earth and crack open a tactical nuke on a Ukrainian target this week.
And that's the kind of consideration that goes beyond morality into the pragmatics of "how do we not all get fucking killed"

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 2 2025 11:57am

not to be very annoying now:

Ukraine attacked Russia's nuclear deterrent.
Russia has it written into its law, that an attack on its nuclear deterrent can be responded to, with nuclear weapons.



as i understand it the US and Russia have a treaty which obliges each of them not to attack their nuclear deterrent, and which clearly ensures they dont hide their bombers (i.e. the US knows where all Russia's bombers are and vice versa).

This post was edited by ferdia on Jun 2 2025 12:52pm

What do you mean? Russia blew up North Stream or w.e not so long ago... ???

This post was edited by Fnall on Jun 2 2025 01:04pm

The US accused Ukraine of blowing up Nord Stream. Seymour Hersh said it was the Americans that did it. Germany and Norway? did an investigation and refuse to state their finding quoting national security (i.e. the Americans or Ukrainians blew up Nord Stream). If all you are taking from Gooms post is that "ut Russia's never actually gone out and blown up our bridges or trains or knocked out our planes." then i recommend you read the rest of it

What do you think happens next after this most recent attack?

There was no point for Ukraine or USA to do it, Nord stream was blocked off already. All credible findings point to Russia, we all know Russia uses terrorism to pursue its aims of false flag lancing to cause chaos/mayhem and use it to achieve their imperialist fascist aims, for example: ex-kgb operative gave order to blow up apartment blocks with their own people sleeping in them to give themselves fake premise to restart war with free Chechnachania Caucasus emirates state after getting humbled by said state during first war against them, same happened when russia allied with their fascist nazi Germany ally invaded Poland and started world war 2 on side of the nazis, who later deemed russia inferior, turned on them and killed like 30 million of their people.

Always same old tune playing from the broken russian radio, they shit where they eat non-stop, Mongolic gene' d barbarian will always be a savage, no matter how much you appease it.

Even nazi programmed Grok knows all of this:







This post was edited by Fnall on Jun 2 2025 02:33pm