Juries usually don't turn on a single piece of evidence.

IMO it's a slam dunk to get some form of manslaughter. It's been shown that juries who find not guilty for higher charges then have a more difficult time convicting on lower charges. Like if you charge them with the rung up to first degree it's then harder than if you had just done manslaughter. Hopefully that kidn of thing doesn't happen here.

Obviously we have a lot of the trial left. But so far, there seems to be a framework taking shape:

Officially, Chauvin is on trial. However, what's really on trial is the reputation of the Minneapolis PD. The trial is being used a stage to try and repair their reputation. The defense and prosecution are on the same page with this. This trial is their opportunity to improve the relationship between the cops and the community (or at least stop the bleeding and minimize the damage). The MPD's ability to function in the future is the larger concern here. There doesn't seem to be any 'protect the shield' going on. Bob Kroll's early retirement plays into this strategy as well. Everyone left on the boat is happy to toss Chauvin overboard if it will prevent the ship from sinking. That's why I say 20years is the minimum I can see Chauvin getting. And they might even go for 34 years because that was Kirby Puckett's jersey number. And they know that Minnesotans love them some Kirby Puckett.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Apr 2 2021 10:35am

Meth would intensify the high and energize Floyd, and lead to his state of Excited Delirium, where with just the Fentanyl, he would almost certainly have stayed in the cruiser and fallen asleep, rather than complaining he couldn't breath, hitting his head against the safety glass, and demanding out. The meth does not, however, counteract Fentanyl in the way you're claiming. The problem with the combination of meth and fentanyl is that meth highly increases heart rate, without increasing blood oxygen concentrations, and in fact constricts your blood vessels, making it even harder to get enough air. Your lungs do not work more efficiently. It leads to CO2 waste buildup in your body. Pairing it with the respiratory depressant in already fatal dosage, far from "counteracting" is more likely to speed up death. From everything I'm reading, meth as a stimulant can be very effective at enhancing the high while removing the tired/groggy aspect of Fentanyl. But as far as counteracting the life threatening aspect of a fentanyl overdose? Quite the opposite, it's more likely to insure the fatality.



He informed the officers multiple times before he was ever on the ground that he couldn't breathe. He was in a state of excited delirium caused by the combination of methamphetamines and fentanyl in his blood.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/bodycam-transcript-reveals-what-was-said-between-ex-officers-george-floyd

The only "case" for any form of murder or manslaughter, either one, is directly tied to the refusal to turn Floyd onto his side, based on the autopsy results that show no evidence of injury to the neck or compression of the lungs. He was neither "crushed" nor "asphyxiated". And his complaints that he was unable to breathe started long before he was on the ground.



According to the information I'm seeing, that would depend on his level of use prior to that month. If he was a "casual user" then his tolerance could have been gone within a week or two. If he was a daily or multiple times daily user, you could potentially be correct.

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This post was edited by Surfpunk on Apr 2 2021 10:46am

that coroner response is a nonstarter. it neither clears nor dooms Chauvin. Leaving the jury with the rest of the body of evidence to make their decision.

right now we have a tox report that does not prove a fatal detox was happening, a coroner who said she can not clear chauvin through "but for" judgements of the officers, and a weak example of the hold in an MPD training manual going for the defense.

the prosecution has not only a stronger case with tertiary evidence through "expert" witnesses, but emotional appeal, fairly damning evidence in video to a laymen, AND beyond that each piece of evidence for the defense is a double edged sword other than the tox report. the "but for" is two fold, and the hold instructions in the manual were not followed. newly trained officers tried to get Chauvin to roll Floyd over, he declined. even had to be told by paramedics to get off Floyd.

The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin was legally responsible for his death. Obviously it would be preferable for the defense if the coroner came out and said "clearly it was drug toxicity", but we've known since the very beginning that that wasn't going to be the case. The coroner ruled it a homicide. The defense wants doubt as to whether or not drugs / heart disease / etc. killed Floyd, because if that doubt is a "reasonable doubt", then Chauvin is clear.

The MPD slide is concerning not because of the hold, which is clearly legal, but because Floyd was never put into a recovery position. If that can't be explained away, then it's reasonable to conclude that Chauvin was at best extremely negligent, which assures the prosecution of at least 2nd degree manslaughter, and possibly more.

personally ive been for negligent homicide manslaughter type charges all along, murder 3 in MN iirc. but even under murder 2 the idea that the prosecution needs to actually prove that isnt valid. in a case this high profile emotion will elevate further than it should above facts. maybe the jury gets hung from a few doubters, but i bet even they are scared to acquit. this case is closer to the OJ case than the law would like.

Irrelevant. Do you know what duty of care is?

I agree that 2nd degree manslaughter and 3rd degree are appropriate charges with an ok expectation of success.

2nd degree murder requires that they prove there's an underlying felony. I would be really surprised, and there's a big risk that it's overturned on appeal.

Except that the OJ case had the racial dynamics reversed, with a rich and prominent black man being accused of murdering white folks. With OJ, there was never the threat of riots by the black community in case of an acquittal.